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Author Topic: Norvel Big Mig 061  (Read 1092 times)

Offline Motorman

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Norvel Big Mig 061
« on: July 04, 2019, 02:46:27 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 08:53:16 AM by Motorman »

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 04:58:11 PM »
   That is typical of every Norvel I have had in my hand. Just read the instructions and break in as per instructions. Once that is accomplished, it will start and run.  It has been discussed numerous times on the forums here on how tight these engines are, and that is by design, but even when people mess with them they will still run. It is no exaggeration when it is said that the engines used at KidVenture have had hundreds of hours racked up on them along with countless and relentless pounding into the ground. you should just run it and work with it keeping an open mind about it and learn the breed just like any other engine and don't make assumptions about what is new to you. The best way to pick a prop is to fly it and test it. The eenie, meanie, minie, moe routine doesn't work very well. Put one on the model and fly iy.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2019, 07:12:20 PM »
I run my bladder fed(fairly low pressure - (sm. surg. tubing)) Big Migs through a gutted RC venturi with a spraybar through the collar with a hole that goes straight into the throat. I'll bet that one gets more fuel flow from pressure than could be forced through the TD's 3-hole sprinkler. But as for suction, yours might be a lot more user friendly, but may not develop as much power. Kind of like the difference between a Medallion and a TD. But Norvels are very efficient, making more power from less fuel than TDs, so you may end up with a great little runner. Maybe a 1/2A Stunter, since that seems to be of growing interest lately.

Regarding props, yes the MAS is under-pitched, but I like to cut them down and they fly well. An MAS 5-5.5 is tame for test flying but will sag in hard corners. A 5.25-3 works well on my Baby Streak, and a 5-3 is even better. With suction, I don't know if there might be any sag in the hard corners or not, as I've never run a Norvel on suction. For sport Combat flying, try a 4.75(Cox Rubber Duckies are great for this). The 6-3 might make that first crank easier, but I've never tried it, an I wouldn't fly a C/L plane with it. APCs are a whole 'nother set of numbers to play with. For a cramped area and 35' lines, a 6-2. On light wind days I fly planes like the Streak on 40' to 45'.On windy days I use a 5-3 and 40'.

After the first crank, the 6x3 is too big for this engine. To fly, it needs one that lets it spool up into its peak power band, and that's 5-3 territory for flying with Cox type props. Free but tight at TDC is normal for a new engine. Please search for "breaking in a Norvel"... or something like that in these forums and look for my post. It might be in someone else's thread. The NV Engines instructions are destructive... extremely so. It needs for its first 2 ounce tank to immediately run up to peak and stay there long enough to heat all the way up for the pinch and piston to mate. Back off rich for a moment and go right back to peak, and repeat till it's out of gas.

To ease the first crank, heat the cylinder and head with a heat gun... and/or, either stack 6 or so washers under the head, or use a Cox Babe Bee head with 1 or 2 washers. After the initial run, put the Norvel head back on, bolt it onto a plane,l and break it in over the next 57 flights. Like I said, look for the thread I wrote on the subject and learn all about what not to do from the NV sheets. Example: cold spinning a castor soaked new engine with a starter motor to relieve the pinch. HB~> That is Bad. Ask any metallurgist, machinist,...

Hope that helps,
Rusty

And resist the urge to dry flip it through TDC before it's been run.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 07:41:49 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2019, 08:00:53 PM »
It will run faster than 20k. And the older they get, the faster they run. I like the mufflers, but they do rob power. I'm not sure I've tached one with a muffler. Most all of mine have run over 20, and my oldest beater spun 28k with some small APC prop. It'll turn all APCs faster than everything else. I'm on small surgical tubing like Texastimers.com sells. I've tried a TD venturi as big as .150, but much bigger than that may not be good. My favorite size is about .140. If a 1/8" drill bit doesn't drop through it, it needs boring with the next bit. I use a 9/64" bit since I don't have a numbered set. That's .1406... and on a TD. You might get away with more on the Big Mig.

It will needle better with hotter fuel. I use Sig Champion or Cox Super Power 25% - 35%. Watch out old stock Cox SP Fuel, they changed the formula a couple of years ago. I was one of the testers and the new mix works well with 20% castor(or maybe 18/2%). But the old mix had no content label and was very low on oil. The new Super Power fuel is good stuff and has a content label on the neck of the bottle. I had no monetary interest, just a volunteer test runner in my home shop.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 09:04:27 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2019, 08:11:23 PM »
Also the bushings are sometimes too tight. Sometimes the start to get grabby with time, I'm not sure why, but I've had them really start dragging... If you think they're dragging it down, polish the crank... not the bushings.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2019, 06:41:51 PM »
I saw one of these on a combat job and it was haulin' the mail. How do you tame it for stunt?
I think you let it run balls to the wall, which is the only way to make these engines happy, dependable, and repeatable. Then tame it with the airframe. Longer than the usual 1/2A wingspan and fuselage, but still light. You can use a small prop which lets the engine scream, but has enough thrust to do the job. That'll take some experimentation, but APC offers the best cheap choices to be modified. And feed it with a lightweight surgical tubing bladder(my pref.) so you can put a large fuel load onboard. That also makes cranking and needling easier than suction on a 1/2A, but you'll need to retrofit a fine thread NV, like the 128tpi spraybar out of an old Cox postage stamp backplate.

Here's a bladder with a big fuel load. A Norvel will fly farther on the same load as the Tee Dee pictured. It's 2" or so long empty and fills through a check valve in its butt. The empty bladder has the same OD as the fuel line.
Rusty


« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 08:58:13 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Online kenneth cook

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 06:38:52 AM »
         Rusty, I don't know if you were aware that the Cox Super Power Fuel is non-existent. They stopped making it about 2 years ago. Sadly too,  it was excellent fuel and I preferred it over Sig fuel. I sent them a lengthy e-mail in regards to it. I got the typical BS response with sorry we no longer will be stocking it.  If you recall the fellow visited the Cox forum in regards to looking for feedback and testers. I personally felt that the latest version was oily but that's what most wanted. Nonetheless, it worked terrific for every purpose I needed it for. This leaves only a few suppliers for fuel. Regardless of where it comes from the cost + shipping will cause most 1/2A flyers to go into cardiac arrest.

             Some may recall Glowplug Boy fuels, the owner sadly passed away and I believe a friend stepped up and took over the business. This fuel under the name Fitz is available on the Fitz fuel website and also Ebay.

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 09:27:08 PM »
Ken, thanks for bringing me up to speed, I did not know they had quit making it. It ran really great, though I too would have preferred half synthetic and half Castor. I used up my test bottle and bought another couple of quarts. I have used the Fitz fuel too, and it was just as good. I don't recall if I was a tester for it.

When I rekindled my 1/2A career, I lived on Glowplugboy. I was quite sad to hear of his early death. He flew out at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, and I guess Fitz did too.

Oh well, back to Sig. I never fully trusted theirs, as I had more than one batch that ashed up the glow coils and ruined them. But that was over one short period in time years ago, and it has otherwise been fine. I use heir 10% nitro in my Stunters too when I can't get Powermaster, and the transition is seamless.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 09:55:31 PM »
This is a guess based on flying Cox reedies, but check out the low-pitch APC props.  A hot (two-bypass) Cox reedy really seems to like an APC 6-2 for stunt-ish flying.  It's got plenty of thrust, and doesn't go too fast.  That might not be a bad starting point for a stunt run on an 061.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 12:25:27 PM »
Sig is about worthless for much including fuel;;;;;;   sad to say, was a very loyal customer..... decades in fact
Riche's brew will still sell whatever blend you want....hint hint hint....I think FITZ is still selling
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 01:35:02 PM »
This is a guess based on flying Cox reedies, but check out the low-pitch APC props.  A hot (two-bypass) Cox reedy really seems to like an APC 6-2 for stunt-ish flying.  It's got plenty of thrust, and doesn't go too fast.  That might not be a bad starting point for a stunt run on an 061.
I agree, Tim, that's the one I go to first when I want to slow the plane while still letting the engine spin up fast. I actually use the 6x2 mostly on TDs and Norvels, but probably the same sort of performance difference. Pretty good thrust too.

Dan Banjock used to make brass bushing adapters to fit the APC over the Cox 5-40 prop screw. It's better than a piece of fuel tubing until you lose the little buggers in the grass.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com

Online ray copeland

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 02:29:12 PM »
Yellow Tygon fuel tubing works great for the prop adapters. Much tougher than silicone.
Ray from Greensboro, North Carolina , six laps inverted so far with my hand held vertically!!! (forgot to mention, none level!) AMA# 902150

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Norvel Big Mig 061
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2019, 10:05:07 PM »
...Is anyone using a pressure back plate?
Motorman 8)
I tried one on a Czechoslovakian MP Jet .061 "Factory Race Special," and found it to be a royal pain in the ass. But I was inexperienced with the setup and maybe wasn't doing it right. Lots of RC guys use it with success.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

Jackson Flyers Association (a.k.a. The Wildcat Rangers(C/L))- Fort Jackson, SC
Metrolina Control Line Society (MCLS) - Huntersville, NC - The Carolina Gang
Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
www.coxengineforum.com


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