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Author Topic: Magnum .36 pipe style run?  (Read 2057 times)

Offline rob biddle

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Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« on: April 27, 2008, 07:49:56 PM »
 Hi gents,
I haven't been on here much in a while due to many "changed circumstances" at home and currently my internet access is fairly limited.

 I was wondering if the Magnum .36 emulates a pipe style run with the factory muffler or if I would maybe need to run say a Mac's muffler to achieve this result?

 The airframe will be a classic model (Ken Taylors "Kismet") that doesn't really allow room for a wrap around header and a tuned pipe as there is next to no fuselage below the wing.

 Initially designed in the late 50's around (I believe) a Merco 35. I assume that it would be "right on the edge" power wise as the span is 61".

 I was thinking that a Magnum .36 would be a good proposition both power, cost and weight wise and allow me to fly both classic and pa (around intermediate level).

 Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 P.s I hope everybody is doing well.

 Cheers, Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2008, 10:40:59 PM »
The one Kismet we have flying in the USA is powered by a .46LA. The Magnum should work, tho I think a Brodak .40 ,  ST .46, or Enya .45 would all be good choices.
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline rob biddle

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 07:24:27 AM »
  Hi Steve,
 I thought an La .46 could be alright. The kit is of the mk 1 Kismet and the nose length is fairly short. May struggle fitting much more than a 4 oz tank though I guess one could always recess the tank into the leading edge.

 I'm pretty sure that Joe's Kismet is the mk 3 which is a sleeker looking model than the mk 1 but the Saturn hobbies kit is so nice it would a real shame not to build it.

 I intend to run a low pitch/ high rpm set up to punch through bad air. When I was a kid the ratio of good vs bad flying days was pretty good and a 4-2 break setup was a beautiful thing. I'm not sure if it's just me or not but over the last 10 years or so it seems that the case has pretty much reversed and you need a pretty strong outfit if you want to fly consistantly on a regular basis.

 So I suppose I'm looking for fairly ballistic power thats easily controllable and do so on a budget.
Don't want much huh?

 Cheers, Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 07:42:07 AM »
Hi Rob,

My son, Aaron, won Intermediate Classic a few years ago at Brodak's using a Magnum 36 XLIIs.  We have used it in a few planes, all with a tongue muffler.  It does everything Phil G says it does, and more.  It is a strict wet 2 engine for the style run you are saying and does it VERY well.  WE used a repitched 10 1/2" 3 blade for ground clearance, and 11-4 when it clears ok.  Have not tried the APC 10 1/2-4 1/2, yet. 
 
The Kismet, unless grossly overweight, will be outstanding with the Magnum.  Remember, Phil was flying the Diva (A full size PAMPA stunter) on this engine, and while is was piped, the pipe is being used as a regulator, or governor if you will. The only other engine *I* would use in that plane is an Aero Tiger .36.   While a lot of people like the LA engines, I have them, and they do not compare to the Magnum or Aero Tiger, IMHO, for *quality* of run.  I do use the LA 46 on planes like the TEOSAWKI, Cardinal Profile, etc..

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Offline rob biddle

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 08:55:33 AM »
  Thanks Bill,
 You've pretty much sealed the deal on the Magnum .36 as far as I'm concerned!

 The wood selection in Tony's kit is absolutely superb so I am really going to "bust my backside" to get it as close to 40 oz as possible with the Magnum.

 I'm with you on the run quality, the La .46 I have makes more than adequate power for the models I've put it in so far (550-600 squares) but to be honest I have never been enamoured by it.  At the moment it is about to go into a heartbeat models profile sukhoi to get my pattern up to scratch as I haven't seen much flying time over the last couple of years.

 In any case I want the Kismet to be a strong performer that allows me to use it for classic as well as pa so I don't always have to cart 2 models around. I'm really only an intermediate flyer but have pretty good trimming skills as I learnt to fly the pattern on really bad models lol.
 The blokes up the pointy end still won't have too much to worry about.

 Thanks again, Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline Mike Scholtes

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 07:22:02 PM »
If your deal still needs to be sealed a little bit more, I have a Magnum 36 in a Vector 40 running the stock muffler and get a nice pipe-like run, no windup or runaway. Delrin venturi and ST NVA, though I would suggest the Randy Smith NVA over the ST. Randy also has the right venturi. Using a Thunder Tiger 11 x 4.5 grey plastic prop, about 10K. Likes the wet 2-stroke. Virtually no "break" in the maneuvers. Another benefit is that the engine is very compact and narrow, more the size of a 25. Several people around here (including but not limited to PTG hisself) have the 36 on a pipe in larger models than you are contemplating.

Another small-block 36 is the new Evo 36 from Horizon, a purpose-made stunt liner and piston apparently. Sounds very promising but it is not available yet and is untried. I cannot imagine the Horizon guys would release a turkey, though.

Don't discount the cheap, reliable and potent LA46. I have three in various size models up to 631" and it is plenty of power with a good wet 2 or fast 4-stroke on a flatish prop. Likes the APC 12.25 x 3.75  cut down to 11.75.

Offline gary tultz

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2008, 10:41:32 PM »
Try the LA.46 on an APC 11/3--Yes, THREE--run the rpm up to get the lap time you want. You'll be surprised.  y1                                                                                     Rainman  aka  Gary T.  H^^

Offline rob biddle

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 02:54:30 AM »
  Thanks Guys,
 I have definately decided to run with a Magnum .36, been wanting to try one since reading PTG's article's about 12 months or so back.

 Bill, just wondering what style of tank worked well for you? I don't think that there would be room for a plastic clunk tank much bigger than 4oz, though a uniflow wedge or tin clunk tank in the "Al Rabe style" will fit well.

 Magnum .36's aren't popular with the r/c guys here so the are pretty much non existant and the LHS (toy shop) proprietors always try to steer you towards something that they have on the shelf rather than make the effort to order something in for you. So I suppose the best bet is to order one from the U.S, Would Randy Smith be the best person to talk to?

 Thanks heaps in advance,
 Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 07:25:44 AM »
HI Rob,

We used a narrow Brodak Magnum style tank (uniflow) that is around 4-4 1/2 oz in the Ares, and a standard 2" wide uniflow in the Oriental of 4 1/2 oz.  We can always draw out fuel.

Randy would be the one to talk with, for sure.

Bill <><
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James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline rob biddle

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 05:44:17 PM »
 Thanks Bill,
I will get on to Randy soon and order an engine and associated hardware.

Cheers, Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 09:43:59 PM »
The Magnum can burn a lot of fuel if the bearings are shot, and isn't generally very economical even if they're good. One handy bit of info, if you end up needing nose weight, is that the OS .40/.46LA and FP mufflers bolt up to the Magnum. The stock Magnum muffler is 50g., while the OS mufflers are about 90g., from memory.

I take it that this is an older kit? I don't recall seeing that Tony kitted the Kismet. Is he still making kits? We heard he hung it up after the theft at his hobby shop.  :-[ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2008, 11:10:00 AM »
Phil Granderson was using a Magnum 36 on a pipe in his Diva planes. They are Impact sized planes and it went pretty well.

edit

As Stever points out to me, the Diva is a bit smaller than the Impact at closer to 640 square inches where the Impact is just short of 700. Still a bit plane for a .36
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 12:28:38 AM by Randy Powell »
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Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2008, 09:33:19 PM »
G'day folks

It's worth noting that the airframe for all three Kismets is the same. The differences are three different canopies and fuselage mounted landing gear on the Mk 1 and Mk 2 with wing-mounted gear on the Mk3. This requires a slight change to the wheel pants but I think that only the gear leg cover is changed. Joe Reinhard's model is a Mk 3.

It's a great looking model.

Cheers

Geoff

Offline rob biddle

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2008, 06:48:37 PM »
 Hi Gents,

 Steve, I am not 100% sure but I believe that the Kismet was one of Tony's later kits as I don't recall seeing it in stock on one of our earlier visits to his shop. 

 A few of us piled into the car and went to stock up on stuff when we heard he was going to close the doors. It's a shame as his tanks and hardware and especially the megabond ca was second to none.
This was a result of several break-ins, where he lost a lot of stock and a large part of his engine collection.

 I actually was in the market for another T-bird 2 kit but he had none left so I grabbed a Kismet. It was pretty cool being able to get a classic legal model that was never originally kitted, therefore making it a bit more unique.

 Randy, The kismet is (roughly) in the low 600sq" range and with turbulence encountered at most of our local flying sites (trees!) a strong, constant power delivery might help me fly a bit more consistantly. Hence the interest in the Magnum .36 and a wet 2 style run.

 Geoff, from what I have seen the later Kismets appear to also have a sleeker looking fin but I am not 100% sure.

 Thanks for the replys.

 Rob.
Robert Biddle

Offline ptg

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2008, 11:13:58 AM »
Hi Rob,

After 10 years of Divas in varying sizes there still seems to be some mystery as to the actual size.  The version published in MA, Feb. 2005, is 675 sq.in.  It is the SMALLEST version ever built!  The current version Skinny Diva is 690 sq.  All are powered with the Magnum on a pipe.

Re. fuel consumption.  Using a pipe they need 4.25 to 5 oz. for approx. 5.50 minutes of run time.  It really depends on climate but easy to adjust to.  You should use less running on a muffler.  My experiments with muffler although limited have produced adequate runs on 3.75 to 4.5 oz.

Finally, don't worry too much about the bearings.  Generally, the only failure I have experienced is the rear bearing.  It usually takes at least 30 hours of running to produce a failure.  I have had one engine with 100 hours on it before the bearing failed.  When/If the bearing goes it will make a pronounced rattling noise.  Best replacement is the one that comes with the stock engine.  Never use a sealed main bearing!  I learned that the hard way when Diva 6 crashed due to engine flame out!

Hope this helps de-mystify a few things.

PT
PT Granderson

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2008, 11:54:02 AM »
Phil,

Man, that's what I thought. See, I let Steve convince me is was smaller.  Sigh...
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Magnum .36 pipe style run?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2008, 09:47:56 PM »
Well, DANG! I really was wrong once...glad we got that sorted.  y1 Steve   LL~
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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