Author Topic: Magician engine choices (Read 3889 times)

Dan Bregar · « **on:** September 03, 2010, 07:16:34 PM »

Hey Randy

I'm considering building my first C/L airplane in 30+ yrs., a Brodak Magician and would like some suggestions as to what modern engines would be a good choice. Would like it to use a light weight silencer that does not overheat the engine. Don't want a heavy muffler like the standard OS LA series for example. I've been out of the C/L loop for a long time. When I stopped flying C/L, mufflers were just coming in to vogue, around 1970. Any suggestions from you would be appreciated. Thanks

Dan Bregar

RandySmith · « **Reply #1 on:** September 03, 2010, 09:35:41 PM »

Quote from: Dan Bregar on September 03, 2010, 07:16:34 PM

Hey Randy

I'm considering building my first C/L airplane in 30+ yrs., a Brodak Magician and would like some suggestions as to what modern engines would be a good choice. Would like it to use a light weight silencer that does not overheat the engine. Don't want a heavy muffler like the standard OS LA series for example. I've been out of the C/L loop for a long time. When I stopped flying C/L, mufflers were just coming in to vogue, around 1970. Any suggestions from you would be appreciated. Thanks

Dan Bregar

Hi Dan
And welcome back !

Enya 25SS
Enya 30SS
OS 25 LA
ST 34
Brodak 25 or 40

Randy

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2010, 06:50:07 AM »

Hi Dan,

Welcome!!

In what part of the country are you located?

Cheers,
Jim

kenneth cook · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:01:16 PM »

Dan, I found this kit to be favorite . I liked the way it built and the wood quality. I had a problem with the wing when it came off the board but I was able to fix that very easily. I have a LA .25 on mine with a Randy Smith tongue muffler which works tremendously. The plane flies as good as it looks. I made a plastic tank setup with uniflow clunk and it runs spectacular. Good luck. Ken

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:35:26 PM »

I will chime in for the LA 25. Pretty cheap, reliable, and plenty of power to fly the Brodak Magician.

Mongo

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2010, 03:48:32 PM »

Thanks Randy for your quick response and your list of engines for the Magician. I guess I might lean toward the la25 especially after Kenneth & Bill's comment. I guess the power of the la25 with a tongue muffler would be close to the old Fox 35 stunt engine that I used as a kid. Do you run any muffler pressure off the tongue muffler or do you run it like we used to run the standard two vents and a feed line tank arrangement on the la25 ?

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2010, 04:00:27 PM »

Jim

I'm in Ohio. Thought I would take a break from pattern flying and go back to my roots for a bit, and see if I can still fly C/L. Tried to fly a 32 yr old Stuntman 23 1/2 A, and I flew it straight and level OK, and even did a couple of loops on the first flight, but when the engine quit, and I landed, I was very dizzy for a while. After the second flight the dizziness didn't last as long. My hope is that after a few more flights I should be able to try some horizontal eights and a little inverted flying. So I'm getting excited about building and flying the Magician on 60' lines. C/L engines are not the same as they were when I stopped flying C/L in 76, so I have to learn all over what works these days and you guys on this forum are very helpful. Thanks to all of you.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2010, 05:12:21 PM »

Well, a Fox 35 is still a Fox 35.

Keep it up with that 1/2A thing, and when you go fly a big plane you won't feel dizzy at all.

Dick Pacini · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2010, 05:38:06 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on September 04, 2010, 05:12:21 PM

Well, a Fox 35 is still a Fox 35.

Is it really, Tim? I have wondered if the Fox 35 evolved without any performance changes that would make an older one more desirable. So many things today are not like they used to be. I know that manufacturing processes today give more accurate results, but often times, corners are cut to control costs. My first Fox 35 in the late '50s set me back $15.95. The green box Nobler I bought it for cost about $10.

On the other hand, Fox Motors is still in operation and still making the 35, so I guess they are still producing a decent engine. Is there any difference in performance or longevity?

Bill Little · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2010, 09:29:34 PM »

Quote from: Dan Bregar on September 04, 2010, 03:48:32 PM

(snip) I guess the power of the la25 with a tongue muffler would be close to the old Fox 35 stunt engine that I used as a kid. Do you run any muffler pressure off the tongue muffler or do you run it like we used to run the standard two vents and a feed line tank arrangement on the la25 ?

Hi Dan,

Dave Hemstraught was using an ARF Nobler in Classic a short time ago with a LA 25 in it, so that gives you a guideline sorta. Flew as well as a Nobler with a Fox .35.

I use muffler pressure and a uniflow or clunk tank, usually, but a standard vent tank and no pressure would probably work fine. Dealer's choice.

A good prop is an APC 9-4 or 10-4 it seems, with the engine set in a wet 2 cycle run. I use Sig Champion 20% oil, 5% nitro. Pretty easy to work combo!

Mongo

kenneth cook · « **Reply #10 on:** September 05, 2010, 06:07:20 AM »

Dan, I should've mentioned this in my last post. I don't use the stock remote needle valve. I don't like them and I find they're more trouble than good. For starters, The engine is difficult to start as the fuel constantly wants to siphon back into the tank so until you get the fuel flowing it you can see the fuel moving back and forth in the line. This makes it surge initially and keeping the same needle setting seems impossible due to the need you have to open it for easier starting each time. The other point I recognized was the actual run. It appears as the threads give you a bit more of adj. on the standard OS needle assy. whereas the rear mounted needle tends to drop off as your peaking it out. The stock OS unit costs an additional $13-15.00 extra. The stock needle also requires some real crazy fuel line plumbing . As for the plastic backplate, I can honestly say I've never had a problem with the ones I'm currently using. I've heard otherwise though that they'll leak and cause funny engine runs or crack. I did have one loosen up on me. I now just make sure the screws are light snugged. Ken

RandySmith · « **Reply #11 on:** September 05, 2010, 10:37:04 AM »

Quote from: kenneth cook on September 05, 2010, 06:07:20 AM

Dan, I should've mentioned this in my last post. I don't use the stock remote needle valve. I don't like them and I find they're more trouble than good. For starters, The engine is difficult to start as the fuel constantly wants to siphon back into the tank so until you get the fuel flowing it you can see the fuel moving back and forth in the line. This makes it surge initially and keeping the same needle setting seems impossible due to the need you have to open it for easier starting each time. The other point I recognized was the actual run. It appears as the threads give you a bit more of adj. on the standard OS needle assy. whereas the rear mounted needle tends to drop off as your peaking it out. The stock OS unit costs an additional $13-15.00 extra. The stock needle also requires some real crazy fuel line plumbing . As for the plastic backplate, I can honestly say I've never had a problem with the ones I'm currently using. I've heard otherwise though that they'll leak and cause funny engine runs or crack. I did have one loosen up on me. I now just make sure the screws are light snugged. Ken

Which is why I recommended the ENYA first over the OS

:-)

Randy

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #12 on:** September 05, 2010, 03:20:03 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on September 04, 2010, 09:29:34 PM

Hi Dan,

Dave Hemstraught was using an ARF Nobler in Classic a short time ago with a LA 25 in it, so that gives you a guideline sorta. Flew as well as a Nobler with a Fox .35.

I use muffler pressure and a uniflow or clunk tank, usually, but a standard vent tank and no pressure would probably work fine. Dealer's choice.

A good prop is an APC 9-4 or 10-4 it seems, with the engine set in a wet 2 cycle run. I use Sig Champion 20% oil, 5% nitro. Pretty easy to work combo!

Mongo

Bill

Now you are giving me a good yardstick to measure with. I appreciate your valuable comment and now feel I can feel secure with the power level of the LA 25. Thanks for the tip on the tank, prop, & fuel also.

Dan

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #13 on:** September 05, 2010, 03:24:34 PM »

Kenneth

So you are saying you replace the stock remote needle assy. with what exactly ?

Dan

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #14 on:** September 05, 2010, 03:32:22 PM »

Randy

I know zilch about the Enya engines you mentioned. They could be great. My only experience with Enya engines goes back to the 60's with the Enya 15 & 19. I was not impressed with those two by any means. Are not the SS series ball bearing engines ? Randy, are you saying that the Enya engines needle better than the OS ? I'm open to your expertise. So talk to me about these Enya's.

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #15 on:** September 05, 2010, 03:58:40 PM »

I use the Enya SS30 in a Ringmaster with the larger 7.0mm venturi, stock muffler and APC 10.5x4.5 I can fly this thing under some bad wind codition and do the whole pattern. Very easy and friendly to work with.

The Enya SS30 is lighter then the SS25 so it is preferable.

The OS 25LA has a plastic cover plate that most people replace for a custom made metal one.

Also the OS 25LA has 3 ports, the Enya has 4 like all other engines.

Martin

John Sunderland · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2010, 04:25:57 PM »

Quote from: Dan Bregar on September 04, 2010, 04:00:27 PM

Jim

I'm in Ohio. Thought I would take a break from pattern flying and go back to my roots for a bit, and see if I can still fly C/L. Tried to fly a 32 yr old Stuntman 23 1/2 A, and I flew it straight and level OK, and even did a couple of loops on the first flight, but when the engine quit, and I landed, I was very dizzy for a while. After the second flight the dizziness didn't last as long. My hope is that after a few more flights I should be able to try some horizontal eights and a little inverted flying. So I'm getting excited about building and flying the Magician on 60' lines. C/L engines are not the same as they were when I stopped flying C/L in 76, so I have to learn all over what works these days and you guys on this forum are very helpful. Thanks to all of you.

Where in Ohio are you Dan? We have CL clubs in all the major cities.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2010, 05:52:27 PM »

Martin

Looks like the 25LA & 30SS are within a freckle of the same weight, so that's pretty even. As far as 3 ports vs 4 ports, I'm not sure it's really meaningful. And the plastic rear mounted cover & needle is NOT something I really like so If I went with the OS I would have to change it. I'm interested in the running characteristics mostly.

Dan

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2010, 05:54:33 PM »

John

I'm in N.E. Ohio in a town called Madison.

kenneth cook · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2010, 06:03:16 PM »

Dan, Os makes the replacement needle and spraybar assy for the LA engines. Its a direct replacement part which you remove the spraybar from the engine and just replace it with the new assy. Tower Hobbies sells this part although I don't have the exact part number on me. Do a search for Os needle valve assy for .20-.40 FP. Others such as Supertigre needles work as well although you might have to open the case up a little for the body to fit through. Ken

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2010, 06:07:12 PM »

Kenneth

I think you are saying to put a new spraybar and needle assembly up front in the venturi like normal, and ditch the rear mounted remote needle assy. no ? And OS makes such an assembly that is a drop in with no fussin correct ?
So far my search has not found what your talking about, not that I doubt you, I probably just don't know where to look.

Martin Quartim · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2010, 09:16:55 PM »

The Enya SS30 runs a very precise 2-2-2 that keeps my model going up, down and through the maneuvers at the same flying speed, thanks to all the torque it develops in high rpm.

I get nothing but consistant and repeatable performance from it. It has never ran away, starts easy and the quality of this engine is second to none in this class.

Martin

RandySmith · « **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2010, 10:23:51 PM »

Quote from: Dan Bregar on September 05, 2010, 03:32:22 PM

Randy

I know zilch about the Enya engines you mentioned. They could be great. My only experience with Enya engines goes back to the 60's with the Enya 15 & 19. I was not impressed with those two by any means. Are not the SS series ball bearing engines ? Randy, are you saying that the Enya engines needle better than the OS ? I'm open to your expertise. So talk to me about these Enya's.

Hi Dan

First I have all of the parts and motors if you need anything, I have OS needles in stock also, they will just slide in the 25 OS
The Enya 25 and 30 SS are nice light plain bearing motor, people love them many are using them and have been for many years now, They are a newer design Enya stunt motor, Bob and Ron Hunt have used the Enya 25 SS for over a decade now in a similar size profile, as has many people,
Just boils down to what you want to use, They will all work
The Enya is a very well made engine and will last a long long time, It will need more breakin than the OS naturally.
Whatever you choose I would suggest using a front needle assembly, and Cyclone props have some great sized props for these motors

Regards Randy

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #23 on:** September 06, 2010, 08:28:15 AM »

Randy

Thank you for your input. Sounds like these newer Enya engines are better than the old ones I remember. Are they ABC style piston & sleeve ?

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #24 on:** September 14, 2010, 04:36:42 PM »

Randy

What kind of metallurgy on the piston and sleeve ? What does "plain" mean ?

Dan

Steve Thomas · « **Reply #25 on:** September 14, 2010, 06:39:17 PM »

Another vote for the SS30. I've found much the same as Martin - rock-steady 2-stroke with heaps of power. Metalllurgy is iron/steel, but I didn't find the break-in excessive, at least compared with the stories of old-style Enyas.

Steve

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #26 on:** September 14, 2010, 07:00:43 PM »

Steve

Sounds like the metallurgy of the old Fox 35. Can it be made to run 4-2-4 or does it want to be 2-2-2 ?

Steve Thomas · « **Reply #27 on:** September 14, 2010, 07:25:02 PM »

Hi Dan

I've found it just wants to run in a steady 2-stroke- not that I've done much experimentation with venturis etc. I liked it just how it came out of the box.

The iron/steel construction is probably about all it shares with a Fox (OK, plus a 1/4-28 shaft and a weight under 7 oz)...

Steve

Bill Little · « **Reply #28 on:** September 15, 2010, 03:58:05 AM »

Quote from: Dan Bregar on September 14, 2010, 04:36:42 PM

Randy

(snip) What does "plain" mean ?

Dan

Hi Dan,

"Plain" means a bushing bearing for the crank versus the ball bearing engines.

Mongo

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #29 on:** September 15, 2010, 07:22:50 PM »

Bill

I know what you are saying is accurate. I did not explain clearly what I was asking about "plain" The Enya web site says "plain" P.C.. I'm assuming P stands for Piston, & C stands for Cylinder. Which I'm guessing may mean Iron piston & steel cylinder VS ABC or ABN types.

John Sunderland · « **Reply #30 on:** September 26, 2010, 03:19:11 AM »

Finish it, weigh it....count on a light 30 to 40 with a sweet switch at 10 and 2....then go back and build a MW Magician my way...you wont be sorry.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #31 on:** September 27, 2010, 09:24:46 PM »

John

After reading your post I'm already sorry !!, HA !!

Woe is me !!

Mike Greb · « **Reply #32 on:** September 28, 2010, 05:37:38 PM »

How about a Sport-Jett 40 with the red muffler , 9mm venturi and about a 9-6 prop?

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #33 on:** September 28, 2010, 05:52:07 PM »

In younger days, Maybe !