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Author Topic: Cox Olympic .15  (Read 4198 times)

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Cox Olympic .15
« on: January 07, 2010, 06:36:29 AM »
I think my post over on SSW has about run its course; I got some fine input, but would like more on some of the questions I posed, particularly #5 and #6. I had already done searches on both forums, finding pretty much what I already knew or suspected at that point. If there is anyone here who doesn't frequent Leonard's Forum and can comment, I'd like to hear from you too and have reprinted my original post below. I gather that this little engine is a screamer, likes to reverse itself, may not like normally vented tanks, and may be a bit ornery, although P.G.F. Chinn liked it a lot on 30% nitromethane. I'd like to use my Olympic .15 sometime, but would need some back-up parts, like glow heads and reeds, before building anything for it. Here's my post, with questions for you guys who have used the engine. Thanks for whatever you can add to my understanding.

Next to the Dooling .29, the Olympic .15 was the engine that most attracted me in advertisements during my youth. Twenty or so years ago I finally bought one in good condition at a FF show's swap area, and it has languished in a plastic bag ever since. Last night I got to thinking about my back-burner, unconventional, "sort-of" stunt design that I may build (too many of these flit through the aging mind!), and the Olympic also came to mind. Today I got it out and looked it over...3.85 oz, great compression, no play...search yielded pretty much what I already knew. Can any of you help with these questions?

1) What available fuels or mixture proportions are appropriate for this engine?

2) Can these engines adapt to a low-pitch, 2-cycle stunt run?

3) If so, what props would be appropriate?

4) A friend gave me a couple glow heads from Dynamic Models, inc. They don't look like matches for the Olympic, although they are labeled "Cox .15 Head". Were after-market heads made specifically for the Olympic .15, with appropriate combustion chamber shape, compression, etc? I should find something for it - reeds too.

5) Besides starting backward, were/are there any other problems in running these - like plumbing/tanks, etc?

6) With what modern engine sizes would this engine equate in power or torque, or alternatively, what size plane would suit it for flying stunt maneuvers at a reasonable speed?

Thanks for whatever you all remember and can contribute!


SK


Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 07:37:06 AM »
SK, I won't have a lot to contribute as I desire to learn more about the larger Cox engines as well. including the Medallion and Tee Dee .09s and .15s

Also there is the Sportsman .15 which as best as I know the same as the Olympic but without the ball bearings and having a reed valve.

Reedies are notorious for starting backward. Something that can't be helped as I know aside from ditching the reed induction. I hope someone can correct this and any opinion I have that is wrong.

The Medallion and Tee Dee engines are rotary valve and do not suffer this problem.

One other thing I have read about the Cox .15s is that they can vibrate terribly. I hope it isn't so and if so it may somehow be corrected.

Because of their low weight, These engines probably have a much greater power to weight ratio compared to the cast case engines of other Mfgs.

Prop size. No more than 8x4 not sure how small you can go but I think nothing smaller than a 7x3 or 7x4 for general use

On a side note, I have read that the Cox .09 is louder than the Cox .15!

I just found this!:
http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/documents/cox_olympic_instructions.pdf


Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 08:28:14 AM »
Thanks, Robert. I must have found the manual at about the same time you did. I also found an article on nastalgia FF by Sal Taibi, who gave some pretty stringent operational instructions - lots of nitro and castor. From the reviews, it appears that the spring starter is a must, since Taibi (I think) warns against the use of electric ones. I'm kind of curious about what would happen with a muffler too.

SK

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 10:14:33 AM »
How one starts Cox engines, 049 and up, is thusly. Head prime, how much varies from engine to engine.  Turn the prop backwards to vertical.  Attach battery which lights up glow plug like a flashlight.  Hit the prop forward with your gloved finger.  With a little practice, you will get good starts 99.7% of the time.   :)

I would think an Olympic 15 would do fine on a Mackey Profile or a full size Magician.  I'd run an 8 x 4 ir 8 x 3 prop.

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 07:08:00 PM »
I have both the Olympic and Sportsman versions but have never run them. However if you go to the following link there are 4 scanned pages of Aeromodeller magazine tests on the Olympic and then 2 more pages on the Tee Dee 15.
http://www.the.elmores.btinternet.co.uk/engine_tests/cwdata/cox_olympic_15_am0.html

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 08:36:16 PM »
Thanks, Brian and Jim. I think I'll find some tools and parts and give this a try.

It is seldom that an engine that is acclaimed as the most powerful, or at least one of the most powerful in its class, is eclipsed within two years by the next model having 25% more power and torque. I get the impression that not many had the time to acquire one before it was superceded by the TD. The possibility of starting reasonably without having to reach back and choke makes this a bit more attractive. Anyway, I've always wanted to use it; so thanks, Jim.

Brian-

Thanks much too. I didn't know that Tony had posted these engine reviews and had not seen the AeroModeller article. The 1960 World FF championships article I read agreed with some on SSW Forum that the Olympic didn't draw well. I still haven't had anyone else comment on the possibility that a different venturi became available. The article said that Woody Blanchard (I think!) had to revert to his second plane, which had the Olympic with a rear rotary valve. While the USA team had all been running O.S. Max .15's, he was quoted as saying he wished he'd started with the Olympic, the author also adding that his did not seem to have fuel draw problems.

Anyway, it looks as though I'll look in on e-Bay for the first time in several years to see what it would cost to round up s a starter coil, some glow heads or a universal one, maybe some reeds, and the Cox tools. This looks kinda fun.

SK


Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 09:53:52 PM »
I still haven't had anyone else comment on the possibility that a different venturi became available.
Serge
At the end of the second to last para in the Aeromodeller test it mentions that the venturi was reduced to approx 1/8" bore to improve suction. I just checked my Olympic and its bore is 4.2mm which is almost exactly 1mm larger than the approx 1/8" of the later engine, later being relative I guess because it seems they were only made for about 2 years. However this reduces the area of the venturi from 13.8 sq mm to just 8 sq mm which is appreciable.

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2010, 10:32:45 AM »
Thnks, Brian. I printed out the Olympic .15 manual, which has a parts list. It lists carburetor bodies #1424 and #1425, but just one "venturi nut with screen", #1416. I'm wondering what the difference is in the former two, but thinking that the latter determins the diameter. That's kind of confusing, but since I haven't yet gotten the wrenches (I will have them from Art Johnson!), I haven't disassembled mine to understand the intake geometry. Art also says there were different heads, one high compression, with "knurl" (squish band??) for the Mk. II. Would you explain what part or parts need to be changed to reduce the intake diameter? I am thinking that at least the "venturi nut" would be changed, but don't understand why there would be two carburetor bodies listed.

That's a hefty reduction in intake area! If only the venturi nut were needed, I suppose I could get one turned by a fabricator I know. Thanks.

SK

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 10:42:50 AM »
The knurl referred to is around the glow plug post on top of the head.  You really don't need a starter spring.  I think one came on the Sportsman, but don't recall one for the Olympic.  I may have a glow head lurking around. I'll let you know if I find it. 

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 12:12:45 PM »
The knurl referred to is around the glow plug post on top of the head.  

Ah, I see. That explains it! I just got fixated on the inside and didn't understand how that would be knurled. I wonder what difference there is in the chamber that they would choose to mark this one differently. Thanks, Jim. I have noted your starting procedure and will use it for sure.

SK

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 12:32:35 PM »
I'm kind of curious about what would happen with a muffler too.
If it has sub-piston induction, a muffler will probably impact performance more seriously than it would for a "regular" engine.

Watch the exhaust port as you pull the engine through one revolution -- if the port gets uncovered at the top of the engine's stroke, then the engine will be drawing in air from the exhaust port for part of its intake charge.  If you wrap that cylinder with a muffler, that air will be exhaust, instead of the fairly clean air you'd expect around a cylinder that's hanging out in the breeze in flight.

When Cox got serious about muffled engines in the 80's, they designed cylinders without sub-piston induction specifically because of its effect on performance.

Having said all that, I'm going to partially contradict myself: as best as I can remember, I have run mufflers on Cox 049's with sub-piston induction.  It was a long time ago, well before I knew about sub-piston induction, that I flew a Cox QRC engine.  I think I swapped cylinders around without noticing ill effects -- but we're talking 25 years ago, I was flying RC sport, and I didn't have a tach, so everything was being done by ear.

I'd bench run the thing with a muffler before I built a plane for it, for sure.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Jim Scott

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 08:16:18 AM »
You have probably seen the current ebay listings with Cox Olympic parts.  The lister is selling wrenches, starter springs and venturi nuts.  He uses buy it now.  I saw the wrench go up first and thought about buying it, but it sold right away.  Then he listed another.  I bought a spring; a couple of hours later another was listed.

The venturi nuts are the aluminum versions.  My engine has a red nut, so I passed.  Maybe someone knows if the colors indicate a difference in size.

Jim

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 11:37:50 AM »
Thanks, Jim. I've rounded up some parts and will put the check in the mail tomorrow. However, I'll still go over to e-Bay and see what's happening, especially about venturis. Several guys have mentioned their experiences with their Olympics, and they are split on whether it gave them trouble and on whether draw was sufficient without pressure. I'm wondering whether they had different venturis on their engines. Right now I'm kind of curious about those venturis and the fact that my down-loaded replica Olympic .15 manual shows two parts numbers for carburetor bodies: #1424 and #1425. I also understand now that knurled heads are higher compression and wonder what differences that makes in engine run and glow life. 'losts of questions, I know, but it's a neat bit of history we hold in our hands when we run these.

SK

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2010, 06:55:58 PM »
The Sportsman used the plain alloy venturi nut and just for curiousity I just checked the venturi size in my Sportsman which turns out to be 4.3mm (or .1mm larger than my Olympic). This puts the area at 14.52 sq mm which is exactly 1 sq mm less than the area of a .28 RC engine that I have! Just to put things in perspective :).

Offline Robert McHam

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2010, 07:33:30 PM »
SK, You and the rest might want to take a look at this page!!!
An Olympic without a reed!

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_olympic_15_rotary.htm

Robert
Crop circles are simply open invitations to fly C/L!

Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: Cox Olympic .15
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 05:38:10 PM »
Thanks for posting that. The disassembled parts arrays are very interesting!

SK


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