Author Topic: K 77 Tests? (Read 11132 times)

John Leidle · « **on:** August 25, 2015, 03:39:46 PM »

Waiting to hear how they run...

John

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2015, 05:03:32 PM »

Well dont know that but I do know that they weigh 11.9 Oz and I will not have to drill out all of my expensive carbon props as the
crank shaft is not the 5/16 big one as is on PA .75

tom brightbill · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2015, 05:34:00 PM »

John, Unfortunately I archived my email with Kaz that had all the set up and break in info and for some reason can not retrieve it. (I've asked Kaz to please send me the info again.) So, until then it will sit on the workbench.
I can mess up anything electronic and when I do, I don't know how to fix it. That's why I fly IC.

tom brightbill · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2015, 05:41:25 PM »

Just in from Kaz:

I use Enya#3 plug for most of time
You can use the same propeller and fuel as for PA75.
Tuned pipe 12.5 to 13.0 x 4.5 to 5.0 3B 9500 to 10000rpm
Rear muffler 12.0 to 12.5 x 5.0 to 6.0 3B 9000 to 9600rpm
Prop for rear muffler should be 0.5inch smaller than the prop for pipe.
You can determine the prop is too big for the engine if rpm increase in air.
Pipe create more power than the rear muffler.
When you use the rear muffler, I recommend "No baffle" muffler.
And It is highly recommended to use muffler pressure.
It really help one speed running.

We made long hole for rear side mount hole to be adjusted to current available
other engine mount.
Then I have found the mount bolt on long hole some time lose torque after som
e flights.
I put nut that works keep it tight.
The K77　Shaft diameter is 1mm larger than the PA75.
So you need drill to the PA75 prop.
I have PROP ADAPTER RINGS if you want to use the prop with PA75 again.
I have spare venturi (φ7.8）　　

I removed the price quotes from his email so that if they change in the future it will not cause confusion. I sure that he will supply prices at any time an order is placed.

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2015, 06:18:45 PM »

I hope to have the K77 in my Giles 202 by this weekend. It appears to drop right in RO Jett mounting holes.

Ist email from Kaz said basically this:

#1 Two additional head gaskets supplied with engine

#2 Long time break in on bench is not good

#3 I think 3 tanks running on ground is OK before you fly

#4 I use 10 to 15% all synthetic oil fuel , 20-22 % oil

#5 I use 8.1 oz fuel for pipe, 7 oz for muffler

#6. I use #3 Enya plug most of the time , and Enya #4 for very hot air.

John Leidle · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2015, 10:34:12 PM »

Tom, if you want I can test fly it for you.. I can hop on my Rocket and be at your place before coffee time.

FLOYD CARTER · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2015, 04:11:38 PM »

OK that this engine is a drop-in for the RO-Jett. However, 7 oz. fuel doesn't compute. RO-Jett 61 RE used a bit over 5 oz for a stunt flight. My tanks not big enough for the K77

Floyd

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2015, 02:11:33 PM »

Well...I don't care if it burns 7 or 8 oz. of fuel. I am just wondering if they are made in Japan or elsewhere. It looks like a PA .75, IIRC, except for the blue backplate.

to Kaz for doing this!

Steve

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2015, 01:58:35 PM »

Stalkers I believe are made in the Ukraine

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:45:14 PM »

Walter, are you saying that these are made by Stalker? I know Stalkers are made in Ukraine by a guy named Oleg and his elves.

Steve

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2015, 06:50:02 PM »

Yes this is a Stalker motor with input from Kaz Minato it is meant to be a replacement for the no longer available PA 75 it is much different that the other Stalker in that the RPM range is much higher and it is supposed to be a copy of PA 75 etc. I almost have a plane
ready to test it Monday or Tuesday I hope ( Giles 202 like Richard Olivers , 56 oz without tip weight )

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2015, 12:23:50 AM »

Ready to do break in Runs 9/2/2015, plumbing has been changed since this picture , muffler pressure has been added per
Kaz Minato. Will use Xoar 12x4 for break in runs .Per Kaz email 3 tanks on ground, I will use the prior Stalker Break in procedure
per Kaz- Very Rich 5 min, 4 Stroke 5 min x 4 runs , 4-2 5 min x4 runs . Please understand this is what Kaz says to do with Stalker these are not PA engines which take much longer or RO Jett which take much less. These are the specific instructions listed on the Kaz Minato
website specifically for the Stalker engines. Urainian metals not PA or Ro Jett metals! I will be using 15% all synthetic 21% oil
Helicopter fuel( Byrons) as that is what is available to me now.

Akihiro Danjo · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2015, 12:55:55 AM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on September 02, 2015, 12:23:50 AM

I will be using 15% all synthetic 21% oil Helicopter fuel( Byrons) as that is what is available to me now.

Doesn't Byron blend their fuel by weight and not volume?

Aki

Matt Colan · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »

I emailed Kaz about availability of the engine and he said he will be receiving another batch at the end of the month. I'm really interested to see how these run compared to the 75.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2015, 12:54:15 PM »

I think Byron is one of few that blend by volume. I do know that my Stalkers run well on the fuel that Walter is planning to use in the engine. Waiting to hear the results...Go Walter!

Doug Moon · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2015, 03:20:10 PM »

a 13x5 rev up loaded the motor down to 8200? Did I read that right? I had trouble following what was going on.

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2015, 03:26:00 PM »

Yes that was at the same needle setting directly after using the Xoar 12x4 9,600 rpm. I will be flying again tomorrow and more testing will go on with different props. I did not try to tweak the needle just flew it at that setting. I will do more testing tomorrow

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2015, 03:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on September 02, 2015, 01:19:48 PM

NV is not sensitive at all , again I do not have one but have friends who have the PA 75
and said that it was pickey on NV setting ( they had pipe Expert pilot )and have since gone to Brett Buck RO Jett 61 and like it better as
they said that it was much more user friendly. PLEASE don't start a pissing match over these statements about the PA. This is what I have seen with my own eyes and ears. I know Dave Fitz PA 75 runs very steady and is very impressive .

Hi Walter,

That is great news about the K77, I am very very happy to hear that the stunt world has yet another choice. Kaz is a great guy, and I am sure he will be great to do business with.

I concur, that we don't want to start a pissing match over your, or your friends, PA75 statements, yet, I would like to at least add some clarity to their statements for others that will read this thread, since I, and several others never had the issue with a "picky needle" on our PA75's. Since I run one personally, box stock, recommended quiet pipe, recommended prop, etc, I know that they can run just dandy when used as directed. If anything, my needle is so broad that I am too conservative in my adjustments and have been known to not turn it far enough during big weather DA swings.

The one time I saw a PA75 go off to the races, like your K77 is currently doing, is when someone tried to put a small 12" 3 blade (a typical PA 40 or 51 prop) onto a PA75 to see what it would do.

An abundance of power needs to be harnessed somehow, and that is usually done with diameter, under camber, or de-tuning the engine with small venturi, changing rpm range on the pipe and pitch on the prop, etc etc.

Personally, I would find it hard to blame the engine if I buy a super powerful 75 and expect it to run like a 40 without a substantial adjustment to the setup.

Once again, congrats on the K77, it sounds like it will be great once you get it adjusted, and I am glad you will have more patience with it than your friends did with their 75's.
I look forward to hear more once you get it where you want it, and what your final setup on it will be.

Thanks again for sharing,
EricV

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2015, 04:02:12 PM »

I asked that there be no issue with PA 75 so I removed my post , All I can say is the K 77 is excellent .That is all I will say pm me privately if you want more information.This post is about K 77 my bad. I will not be posting again on my tests. Plane did not go "off to the races," the lines were too short and too much prop pitch engine ran steady 4 cycle throught flight.Please means please!As usual
it was not understood what I was trying to communicate , Dave Fitz has always had great runs I was simply stating that one person
had an experience with. Therefore I will keep my comments to myself. I have always wanted a PA 75 but they are not available I am done with my comments sorry for all.
the PA 75 is an excellent engine from what I have seen so if you can get on do so. Get someone else to test and comment.

RandySmith · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2015, 04:14:59 PM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on August 25, 2015, 05:03:32 PM

Well dont know that but I do know that they weigh 11.9 Oz and I will not have to drill out all of my expensive carbon props as the
crank shaft is not the 5/16 big one as is on PA .75

This is from Kaz "The K77　Shaft diameter is 1mm larger than the PA75.
So you need drill to the PA75 prop."

RandySmith · « **Reply #20 on:** September 02, 2015, 04:20:23 PM »

The PA 75 as well as ALL PAs have a nice broad needle setting, unless something is wrong, I rarely ever here of a very critical needle setting, but people who have called about it have had their problem solved quickly,every time it was never the engine.
If anyone has that problem they should call for help from the guy they got it from, he is always willing to help

Randy Smith

Doug Moon · « **Reply #21 on:** September 02, 2015, 05:14:28 PM »

Walter,
You should continue to post your results about the 77.
This thread is not about the PA line. But you have to know even with a disclaimer if you comment on the PA there will be posts about it. The PA line has a good track record it doesn't need any defense. Most everyone knows that so that's that. (I just typed the word "that" almost 3 times in a row. Haha)

There is NO flight data pool at this point so in flight run characteristics comparisons to other motors is not realistic, yet. But it will be soon enough.

If you could please post a full size pic of the plane you are using.
And at the all up weight listed you should be able to get to 70' center to center and still have tons of power.

I wonder with a plane that light if you are going to have to tame the motor some. Just thinking out loud.

Please continue to post your findings.
Setup details and what change along the way.
That way we can watch the progression of your motor and it breaks in and you eventually settle on a setup.
It is very helpful to many of us out here in the stunt world.

Thanks

Doug Moon · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2015, 08:13:45 PM »

I am noticing Walter's name is now blacked out and it says Guest under it??

Did he leave the forum over this??

Huh??

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2015, 09:17:52 PM »

Doug , I will heed your advice. I hope people can realize I am a mid level advanced pilot I have competed since 1984, been to two Nats.
So If it is ok for a "Non Expert" to state what he is doing I will do it. I am sure that you are very familiar with the plane I am using .
I did not have a good plane built that this motor would fit in so I assembled a Giles 202 like the one Richard Oliver has.
it is 677 sq inches and does fly well so it is a good test bed. It has R/C mounts so I can use any engine I want.

The run characteristics at 9,000 with stock venturi were a steady hard 4 stroke. ( with Eather 3blade flat back 12.5x5.25 prop) .Keep in mind altitude is 1,200 sq feet and the temperature was 65 degrees or so. So my comments will be on just what I am doing hopefully someone will put this is a piped plane
so more information can be had. I did not mess with the NV when I used the Rev Up 13x5. So the results are probably not conclusive there. I took the engine out of the plane tonight to put some RTV on muffler to seal it . The NV was out only 1 1/2 turns.
The engine does not break hard at all very mild so I still can add head gaskets if necessary. I have 65" lines which I will try tomorrow.

RC Storick · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2015, 09:22:04 PM »

Quote from: Doug Moon on September 02, 2015, 08:13:45 PM

I am noticing Walter's name is now blacked out and it says Guest under it??

Did he leave the forum over this??

Huh??

He lost his password. I could have reset it but he left and came back with new email addy and password.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2015, 11:44:47 PM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on September 02, 2015, 09:17:52 PM

I did not mess with the NV when I used the Rev Up 13x5. So the results are probably not conclusive there. I took the engine out of the plane tonight to put some RTV on muffler to seal it . The NV was out only 1 1/2 turns.

I've had a NV Assy. that ran ok fully closed (some sort of machining defect). I fixed the problem by removing it from the .25 I had it in and put it into a .46, in which it worked perfectly. It just would not really close off, just stopped screwing in any further. I'd expect a similar situation with your K77, so don't worry about that, especially if it burns the 7 oz of fuel that Kaz says it will. At your altitude, it may burn a bit less if the nitro content is actually the same as his, of course. I'll expect to see it in Salem in early October!

Steve

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #26 on:** September 03, 2015, 03:04:44 PM »

The following was done to the plane last night:

#1 Sealed the muffler with red high temp silicone, worked well today no oil on muffler.

#2 Installed 8 oz tank in plane, worked very well.

#3 De Pitched Eather 12.5x5.25 prop to 5P,

#4 went to 65" Eyelet to eyelet lines, wing is short 48" so this is 67 center of the plane to handle.

#5.The usual new plane adjustments pushrods etc.

There was someone else flying and I had some fuel filter issues, etc that I had to address and had to take the cowl off twice
the NV needed tightening. So I did not get in but 3 flights.

#6 At the 1200 ft elevation with 65' lines 8,500 rpm seemed to be nice with mid to low range 4 cycle . 5 second lap times
but ,maneuver speed was nice and slow. Slight break 2-4 not harsh, lots of smoke out muffler looks like a pipe plane
with all the smoke coming out. It sounds a bit like a pipe to in the air. Very low vibration, very very steady.

#7 I used an Enya #3 plug today as that is what Kaz recommends.

#8 I am going to get some 66' and 67 feet lines and will try the 12.5 x 4.75 prop next time I fly.I am a little hesitant because
the elevation to lower the pitch and it is very , very good now even if the level lap times might seem fast but does not
feel fast.

#9 The present set up is very comfortable to fly I will weigh the plane again as I have 1.5 oz tail weight now.

#10. I am way sure I am flying it way down on the power band but it so steady now why bother.

#11 Due to fuel filter issue I filled the tank twice full and we did not get a total time. I am sure that it runs longer
due to the elevation and thinner air.

#11 Not sure what the suppled RE muffler supplied by Kaz does but it seems to work very well. It has a much larger
Diameter than the header mufflers. See post with motor in plane for what it looks like.( It has that pipe rattle sound or
whatever you call it!!!)

#12 I have not tried any carbon 2 blade props but do have a couple of Eather 13x5.25 which I will try later.

#13 same conclusion, easy starting , very little vibration, steady 4 cycle nice easy 2-4 break( not sure what the stock venture is )
I may add some panti hose later to see what that does. Fuel consumption is likely what Kaz says 7 oz for muffler engine.

Sorry we did not get in more flights with different props etc and it may be a while before i can fly again grandkids , both daughter
are coming to see us , then a cruise to the Bahamas !

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #27 on:** September 03, 2015, 03:23:42 PM »

That is a useful and detailed report. Thanks for reporting back and sharing.
EricV

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2015, 07:28:13 PM »

Steve here is a picture of the plane it is 59.6 oz with the prop. I added 1.75 oz tip weight, and 1.5 oz tail weight.This is a good test bed as it is a proven flyer. Richard Oliver showed that several years ago.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2015, 12:09:31 AM »

Fancy test facility you have your plane on!

Steve

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #30 on:** September 05, 2015, 04:00:48 PM »

The next step is 67' Eyelet to eyelet lines which will make the total from middle of fuse to handle 69'. Will not be able to fly
until after the 20th due to company and upcoming cruise.

Doug Moon · « **Reply #31 on:** September 06, 2015, 06:09:47 PM »

Thank you for the detailed report. That is very helpful.

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #32 on:** September 25, 2015, 06:52:25 PM »

No Flying this week due to weather , other stuff follow up on K 77 crank shaft diameter:
It fits the standard Stalker Spinners and stock Eather Props see picture with Digital Micrometer.

RandySmith · « **Reply #33 on:** September 25, 2015, 08:55:26 PM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on September 25, 2015, 06:52:25 PM

No Flying this week due to weather , other stuff follow up on K 77 crank shaft diameter:
It fits the standard Stalker Spinners and stock Eather Props see picture with Digital Micrometer.

Walter
The picture you are posting shows the shaft size a less than 1 mm

or maybe just under 7mm by the scale .. try to zero the caliper and remeasure for us
My post came from what Kaz said the shaft size is, It would help us if you posted an accurate measure.. it looks like it maybe a 7mm shaft
Its very hard to tell because the bottom in scale looks like it shows 3 tenths of an inch. You could even measure it in inches and we can convert that
Do you know what thread it is?

Randy

Walter Hicks · « **Reply #34 on:** September 25, 2015, 10:54:48 PM »

2nd measurement , not sure what kind of thread same as other Stalkers. Appears to be 7 mm

Brett Buck · « **Reply #35 on:** September 25, 2015, 11:18:58 PM »

Quote from: Walter Hicks on September 25, 2015, 10:54:48 PM

2nd measurement , not sure what kind of thread same as other Stalkers. Appears to be 7 mm

Not to be obtuse, but what is the -0.07mm relative to? IOW, what was it zeroed on?

Brett

tom brightbill · « **Reply #36 on:** September 27, 2015, 08:30:09 PM »

Mine measures out at .248"/6.31mm. I zeroed the mic and measured, three times. It's destine for a Blue Max Eternal (of course).

Author Topic: K 77 Tests? (Read 11132 times)

John Leidle

Walter Hicks

Walter Hicks

John Leidle

Walter Hicks

Walter Hicks

Walter Hicks

Walter Hicks

Eric Viglione

Walter Hicks

Eric Viglione