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Author Topic: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running  (Read 656 times)

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« on: March 13, 2007, 07:23:52 AM »
As most of you know, I’ve spent a great deal of time with these remarkable powerplants. I’ve come to the conclusion that, adhering to a few simple guidelines, one will find them as reliable and consistent as their 2 stroke kin.
I sure have.

One of the most prevalent complaints I hear is lack of consistency – difficult/impossible to get smooth repeatable runs.

Through a substantial amount of empirical study, I’ve come to the conclusion that there are really two gremlins that affect consistency:
   Non-uniform induction and heat.
I believe that the latter is too often ignored and can cause some very aggravating situations.

Most of us who fly stunt like the appearance of a neatly cowled, nearly hidden engine to complement the lines of our planes.

Now let’s think. Yes, we like to have a nice air intake to direct as much cooling air as possible toward the engine fins. And, of course, that air has to get out, so we create some nice outlets for that function. So, we have a nice smooth pass for air to come along and remove engine heat. BUT-----------------------are we sure that’s what’s really happening?

Here’s my take on it: the engine heats the incoming air. I’m sure that due to the turbulent nature if the flow, it will randomly swirl around within the cowl. This warm air will, over some period of time heat various other parts of the engine – like the induction tract.  Furthermore, the engine will breath air that is getting warmer as the flight progresses. As the air warms, the density decreases and the mixture changes.
I have in fact proved this simply by removing the cowl after an unacceptable run – sure enough, the run improved greatly.
To insure that the intake air temperature undergoes a minimal (temperature) change, I now insure that all my cowled 4-stroke engines breath air from outside of the cowl - this is done by incorporating a simple aluminum tube that takes air from the top of the fuselage and sends it directly into the carburetor air intake.

Regarding non-uniform induction, this seems to vary with different engines but all that I’ve seen has been on the larger sizes - .56 and up and mostly the SAITO engines. Even thought the tolerances may be well within limits, there is sometimes a small gap between the carburetor barrel and the bore, resulting in air leakage.
Simple to fix – buy a venturi or apply RTV sealant at the external junction.

Bob Z.

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2007, 07:58:16 AM »
Good info Bob,

Something I discovered with my Saito 40a with a UHP manifold is to put a small piece of fuel tubing on the OS needle to seal it to the spray bar. When I started breaking in my 40 I used the RC carb and didn't really pay any attention to consistency as I knew I was going to replace the carb.

After several runs on the RC carb I installed the UHP setup and put it back on the stand. While playing with it I discovered I could put side pressure on the OS needle and change the rpm. The needle had a fairly loose fit in the spray bar and I could move it side to side a noticeable amount. A short piece of fuel tubing fixed it.

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2007, 08:21:29 AM »
Bob - that is a very good bit of info.  #^ #^ #^

Although rare, one will find an occasional air leak in the OS NVAs.  :'(

Since the 4S engines seem more susceptible, any fixes that can eliminate leaks should be implemented.

Bob Z.

Offline dirty dan

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2007, 06:03:30 PM »
Yep, the rear-induction four-strokes frequently benefit from delivering fresh, cool air directly to the area around the venturi. While I will admit to not having pioneered this idea, it was years ago that the local RC Pattern Dudes and Dudettes suggested that I try it.

With both my Impacts--Saito 56s for power, although the second had a 72 in it for a bit--I used a cooling scoop on the left of the fuselage. It was simply the back end of a molded canopy in both cases, cut to fit and glued in place with that water-based, dries clear "canopy" glue I can't remember the name of at the moment. (MonoKote on the fuselage, of course.)

I found it to be a worthwhile setup, although not everybody in this area whacked a hole in their fuselage and capped it with a scoop.

As to leaks with stock carbs, well, that's just one of the reasons to ditch the things from the first, running instead the Pat Johnston-designed manifold and standard venturi.

Dan


Dan Rutherford

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 06:31:34 AM »
I agree 100%.   y1

Although I was not in favor of venturis in the past, I was just being too closed-minded.  n~ n~ I’ve come full-circle and I agree that the venturis can and will solve certain problems. #^ y1

As stated, most of the people that I know who had problems with carbs had them on the larger engines, with which I had minimal experience – remember, I fly mostly small ones (.20 to .40) and I’ve had remarkably good results with the carbs. I have two .20s, three .26s, three .30s, and two .40s flying with carbs and running quite well. BUT, as I’ve stated, your results may vary.

Pat Johnson makes an excellent venturi – I’m not sure if he offers them for the smaller versions but, if problems arise with the carbs, I would suggest calling him to see what he has to offer. You won’t be disappointed.  ;D

I’ve heard of other venturis but I have no names to refer to. ??? ???

Bob Z.

Offline Ron Merrill

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 09:24:02 AM »
Bob, i know you can get the UHP conversions for the Saito .40's as mine have them on my LA Heat with a cooling duct cut in the top of the engine cowl/scoop. #^ Ron.

Offline Bob Zambelli

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 10:17:29 AM »
Thanks, Ron - I'll pass that on to my 4 stroke group.

Here is the method I use for cowled engines.

Bob Z.

Offline phil c

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Re: Four Stroke - cures for inconsistent running
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 06:50:14 PM »
Bob, a typical stunt cowl doesn't do much for cooling.  In most cases it is a good muffler to keep the engine warm.  By typical I mean one with a ~1x3/4 in. slot in the front.  The cowl is either built out of sheet or carved from blocks with plenty of clearance around the engine- all the walls are as thin as practical.  And the exit is a 1x2 or so slot in the back.  When the air gets in the front it will flow around the engine, laminar, and out the back.  Very little will actually go through the fins.  I think the PA engines are the only ones with enough spacing between the fins to get any airflow through them in free air.  On 99% of the engines the air will just flow around the cylinder unless it is forced through it with a pressure cowl arrangement(See Dean Pappas' column on cooling his electric pattern plane last year in Flying Models).  The air has to come into the cowl into a plenum, where the pressure can drop, and then get forced by baffles into the fins into a tapered exit duct to suck the hot air out.
phil Cartier


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