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Author Topic: OS .40FP--Cranks A Lot!  (Read 720 times)

Offline Dave Hull

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OS .40FP--Cranks A Lot!
« on: April 28, 2023, 05:12:02 PM »
I was cleaning up another club members engine (it hit the ground and broke the case, thereby invoking the pavement divot replacement fee) and got to wondering:  how many different crankshaft styles were used on the OS .40FP series? It seems like there are at least three and possibly more. Here are two of them. Does anyone know when the different types came about?

The two in my hands today are a fully machined unit, presumably from barstock, and a forged unit with a minimally machined (near net shape) crank disk. I have seen a fully machine version that has a drilled pin as well. I wonder if one type was limited to the early FP series that used the CI piston and steel sleeve.

I don't want to take anything else from the engine stash apart just to look, but thought that others might have more info at hand...?

Dave

PS--One of the part numbers is 23302000; I'm not sure if they changed the number as the styles changed
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 12:06:35 AM by Dave Hull »

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Cranks A Lot!
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2023, 06:42:31 PM »
From what we're told , they got cheaper & nastyer .THIS parently's the rigonal Iron Piston ( Generally )  ITEM . With MORE Machineing , mate .



Think the Later un fully machined one is the tird , or last , like in LA 46s , later ones .  :P

CRANK is common to FP 35 , 40 , & LA 46 . AND theres a ' 20 throw ' 10 actually ! stroke GP 44 Magnum crank , which dosnt really fit  , rather'n the std. 18.4 .



The Magnums based on the earlier type FP , the 44 anyway . Good Grunter , more go than the 40 . Top Ends FSR 45 ish , fit . ( 40 , rod up , is near FSR 40 )
BUT seem to suffer from liner expanding , or R C Blokes , or parts swapping. Even New . So P/L fit , compression wants a look if theyre after more than ten dollars .

THE Magnum / Royal / Thunder Tiger ' the Story Is ' made O S Parts - Engines . Shadow Factory like . SO a bit of a lottery , at tuimes you find the flash ( as above )
type cranks in thier FSRs cetra . Rather than their ' basuic ' ones . Or Maybe it was the ROYAL was the ' top line ' job , and Normall hadem .

If as is said , the Royal is true ABC , you dont pass a Royal Buy . Or a Tower .

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The FSR cranks go the same way , with the 45 . Machined , earlier with fancy counterweight . FSR 45 , 40 & FP 35 , 40 & 44 rods interchange , heads , liners bar circlip Vs PAD wrist pin .

« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 07:03:39 PM by Air Ministry . »

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Cranks A Lot!
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2023, 08:41:26 PM »
  I have never seen the forged crank like you have, and my guess would be like you suggest and it was in the early stages of the FP series. I haven't taken any of the previous OS series engines apart to know what the .35 crank looked like but I would not be surprised if it was the same. When I was building up some ABC LA.36 engines from parts, Randy Smith answered a post here that the crankshafts from any OS .35 through LA.46 would work I pulled the cranks out of some LA and FP donor engines and they looked like the second one in your picture. I think it's a safe bet that the rods are all the same also. I didn't need to find those as Brian Gardner supplied those with the P&L sets if I'm remembering correctly, but I've slept a few times since then.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Cranks A Lot!
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2023, 10:18:00 PM »
oops,.crekshun. that was ST 46 perhaps . Your Korekt . The FP40 Gardner comes with the ROD . A bit of meandering on rod to crank fit , on that.
Just unglued three Ex RC sf, LA & FSR wrist pins . Really wouldve been better with a saddle with hole , vice & gas torch . Were firmly embedded .

ANY FSR 40 / 45 & FP 35 , 40 , and LA 40 / 46 rod interchanges . Tho some maybe bushed / unbushed .
The CLONES are ditto . Inc. The 44 Magnum. You find a few bent rods . HYDRAULICING IT can weaken / snap the Wrist Pin too .



Part No: X-OS24005000
OS Engine Connecting Rod 35-40FP/LA

O.S. ENGINES CONNECTING ROD 35FP,40FP,40LA,46LA. Code No. : OS24005000.


FSR stuff for interchange . A Garner Liner'l go in a FSR .
FP in FSR has no ciclips & pads'l fall in the ports .

Head, 40 OS 10789 24904019 40FSR CYL HEAD 5.76 Y Y
Head, 45 OS 15174 24904103 45FSR HEAD-AIR 7.66 Y Y
Head, 45H OS 10820 24904207 45FSR-H CYL HEAD 13.76 Y
Head, 40 Stunt OS 17548 24904300 CYL HEAD 40 FSR-S 5.76 Y
Conrod OS 10722 24205001 40-45FSR CONROD 5.76 Y Y Y Y 5.5mm crankpin, 4.5mm wristpin
Conrod (P) OS 16411 24805408 CONROD (P) 5.76 Y Y Y Y
Wristpin OS 10760 24806000 40SR & 40FSR PISTON P 1.56 Y Y Y Y
Wristpin (5mm) OS 15744 24806301 45 ABC PISTON PIN 1.56 Y Y Y Y Tower says this is 4.99mmD.
Wristpin Retainer OS 10770 24817007 40-45SR PISTON PN RET 0.72 Y Y Y Y
Wristpin Retainer OS 15745 24817100 45ABC PIST PIN RET 0.72 Y Y Y Y
from file:///C:/Users/PublicInternet/Downloads/FSR40,45%20Parts%20Listing.pdf



Hurumph . seems theres differnt wrist pins , 4.5 AND 5 mm. in FSR speak .




« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 09:03:01 PM by Air Ministry . »

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Cranks A Lot!
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2023, 11:56:03 PM »
I broke down and took apart a recently rebuilt acquisition--a frozen up .40FP R/C from the $10 "bargain box." Low and behold, it had the third crank type that I had seen before, so it made a nice comparison. I didn't set up the equipment to measure the port timing but the port dimensions are all identical.

So if I had been sitting on the computer instead of out in the shop taking things apart and cleaning them, I could have let Air Miniseries solve the mystery instead of doing any work--and I wouldn't be putting my FP back together along with my buddies "pavement plow" I started working on....

If I had time, it would be interesting to measure the static balance of each. The last version looks like a vibrator compared to the others. And, it points to a possible solution to a Cardinal nose resonance issue I have. The nose is "too stiff" and a stock OS .46LA shakes enough to cause some run problems. The .40LA on it right now is an improvement. But I bet if I swapped the drilled throw FP crank into it I might be getting somewhere.

Thanks, guys!

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS .40FP--Cranks A Lot!
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2023, 09:33:26 PM »
think the early ' better cranks got 5 degrees earlyer closing . Tecnically better ?

Balance factors and rpm's . Re Read the Grand Prix Engine evolution info again the other night . :(
Like a TRIUMPH with their 72 , 85 & other percentages , it all gets tecnical .
BUT
essentially they have a VIBRATION PERIOD . around 6500 on some , which meant you kept it over 6500
which could get awkward .

SO , with a balanced ( nylon ) prop & a tach. you could descern WHERE the ' period ( rough sspot rpm ) is ,
And avoid it or take to a old crank with a disc grinder . Multis got torsional flex . IF they kept out of that
they avoided a dampner - which get big on viscious engines . Where that leaves us I dunno ;
but,
Rally Cars are tuned more midrange & more FLYWHEEL , than the snappy top end Tarmac Engines .
Therefore the heavier crank COULD be the smoothest  , & also give a better ' tourquey ' stunt run .
suckm it and see , the old ' heavy blade with the counterweight ' trick , used if youve got one . ( blade heavier ) .

as in the 3 cranks will likely have a differant rpm ' vibration period ' & a differant ( to each ) ' Best Balanced ' rpm.
Thinking the R C flat out stuff ended up a factor . The Earlier being the theoretically superior. And More Costly .

" Vibration characteristic analysis of single-cylinder two-stroke engine and mounting system optimization design "
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0036850420930631
Theres a thing , for if theres nothing on television .

A TRIUMPH TWIN is effectively a Twin Single , with the pistons ' in phase ' You can get a enourmous tangentalto crank movement sorta like a ' 8 ' with the crank as the lower center ,
with no head steady & untensioned mountings . so a lateral rocking of the FP / LA lugs , as well as the vertical , are forces to contend with .
G 15s we went to 1/2 Sq bearers with ply doubler &  1/2 sheet outside that , Like yr Std .35 / .46 profile . as a ' engine Bed ' to DAMPEN / absorb the  v-i-b-e-s you got running em 20.000 plus .

If i recal right , around 16 / 17 000 was its ' period ' of nastyness on the 3/8 x 1/2 nose . Stable Noses were all the rage for team race rpms etc at that time. Early 70's .

Stops the nose falling off.
QWe eagerly await your report !  ;) S?P needed to find a wrist pin pad , didnt see Aladin but when I do i'll let him know .  H^^


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