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Author Topic: Cobra Fox35 setup  (Read 16544 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Cobra Fox35 setup
« on: February 03, 2024, 01:16:20 PM »
In a post on FB they had the February 1971 American Modeler with Steve Wooley's Cobra. In the article Steve gave some information about how he setup the Fox. Basically, he added one head gasket and OS NVA. He says not to reduce the diameter, (assume this puts it like an ST NVA). He also recommends using 20% nitro fuel, a 10x5 prop (in the photo's it looks like a Rev-up fairly wide blade) and a long reach Fire Ball cold plug. His reasoning was that with the larger diameter spraybar you get better fuel draw and the higher nitro gives you back the power. He does not say what run style he prefers but it is the 70"s do likely 4-2-4. Maybe someone can add to this.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2024, 06:11:40 PM »
Well , if you throw the muffler away , and get a cold long reach fireball plug off of brodak ( I just tripped over them , just previous  - from the plan wtd. thing in C'fied here )

youll soon know , provided your engines run in right .

Intresting the Cobra 7 , Juno , Bob Hunts derivitives etc , stemed from this . Youll get a vicious circle with a muffler , tho titanium might help .


He mustve known something , my finishes are good for Six Months !  :(

The Talka   7 / Akrobat 7,  is a Fox .35 ' development '  a .42 . A bit taller & longer - so it sits a bit further back , helps the C.G. if you had one ? .

He could be being cunning & witholding information . Might be a 11 x 5 T/F , with the ends gone . Trimmed . Tho I think your right & its one of those extra wide things .


Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2024, 10:17:46 AM »
The Cobra setup kinda goes against what was/is considered to be maybe not etched in stone but at least etched in balsa - hot plug, higher compression head, 10% nitro (more seems to break crankshafts with stunt props). Did anyone else fly with Steve and use his Cobra setup on a Fox35/29, how did it do?

Best,   DennisT

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2024, 12:54:42 AM »
Who's got the diameter specs for the stock Fox .35 Stunt and OS .35S (I guess we have to assume that's the one) spraybars? I know both are smaller than the 4mm/.156" Super Tigre (etc.) spraybars that I like to use. The Fox .35 has a huge venturi...around .300 > .305, IIRC. More than big enough for a .60 or .75.

I don't see a good reason to lower the compression of a Fox .35 Stunt, run a cold glowplug, or run a Fireball glowplug for that matter.  D>K Steve

"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

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Offline EddyR

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2024, 10:20:11 AM »
 I saw Steve fly quite a few times. I never saw him fly the one that always shows up in pictures. He must have had several over the years. I saw him fly one that had a bubble canopy. None were the light green color. These contest were at Buffalo and i would time my visits to my regional office there so as to go to watch contest. I think a Fox .35 in a Cobra is stretching the Fox to the limit. Some years later i built a cobra and started with a very good ST .35 but soon put in a ST .40. That was a great flying combination and very easy to fly in any conditions.
 A lot of people back then were running the Fox at it’s limit as models were getting larger. Many were using the McCoy .40 red head motor.   
EddyR
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2024, 01:47:06 PM »
Eddy,
Did Steve run the Fox 35 in a 4-2-4 or a rich 2? From the description in article he lowered the compression, put a bigger diameter spraybar, but punched the nitro up to 20%. I guess he wanted the extra fuel draw with the larger spraybar and a softer break (if any) but added nitro to get some additional power back. Maybe to run the 20% nitro with a stunt size prop he needed to back off the compression to avoid pre-ignition (that crackling sound when they get to hot). Seems like there is lots of ways to get the old Fox to run.

Best,    DennisT

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2024, 02:45:22 PM »
Eddy,
Did Steve run the Fox 35 in a 4-2-4 or a rich 2? From the description in article he lowered the compression, put a bigger diameter spraybar, but punched the nitro up to 20%. I guess he wanted the extra fuel draw with the larger spraybar and a softer break (if any) but added nitro to get some additional power back. Maybe to run the 20% nitro with a stunt size prop he needed to back off the compression to avoid pre-ignition (that crackling sound when they get to hot). Seems like there is lots of ways to get the old Fox to run.

  After some probing, because a lot of the people from that era were reticent to tell us what they did, lots of people, or most competitive pilots in the Fox 35 era, were pouring as much nitro in it that the crankshaft could stand. 20. 25. 30% or more. The difference just going from 5% Fox Superfuel to 15% is astonishing as far as power goes. I would also caution it is astonishing how much louder/harsher the exhaust is, too, and since they were typically running open exhaust, that would be a serious consideration now.

    It's a great idea as long as you have a bunch of spare cranks. My observation is that above 15%, the chances of breaking a crank go up dramatically. %5, I would guess that the failure rate is nearly 0, I always ran Superfuel or some equivalent and never broke one. Above 15, from what I have seen, it is just a matter of time. If you were using it for competition thats just the cost of doing business, but that cost was only about $4 a piece.

    Brett

Offline EddyR

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2024, 06:05:20 PM »
 Dennis I do not remember from that long ago how anyone person ran there motor. Since I was flying a lot in those days I do know not many people ran slow 4-2-4. Also most ran 10-5 not 10-6 props. A lot of people ran 9-6 at very fast rpm. I always built light 500 SQ" models that weighted around 30 ounces.  Jack Sheeks  told me most of his models weighted 50 ounces. I used a early OS Max and Johnson motors and I always seemed to have more power than other people. The Johnson I had back in the early 1960;s was the Orwick Johnson.
 They ran a steady flat 2cycle the entire flight. That very same motor I used for old time stunt and won OTS at the KOI five times in a row. I gave that motor to Bill Little about 15 years ago.
EddyR
Locust NC 40 miles from the Huntersville field

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2024, 07:11:47 AM »
Brett,
I understand running the FOX 35 on the high nitro blends stresses the crank. I think that Steve used the larger spraybar (I assume it is like using an ST NVA) to get stronger fuel drawn, then he used the nitro to compensate but got some pre-igniting or crackling and need to reduced compression (to save the crank). Kinda like flying at Tuson with the thin air.

I have had my Fox's crackle when running a muffler and full 10x6 prop. I solved it by dropping diameter to 9 1/2" to reduce the load (even down to 9" on really hot days) which works well. I like the idea of the stronger fuel draw so might be worth playing with Steve's setup.

Best,     DennisT

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Cobra Fox35 setup
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2024, 07:42:27 AM »
Steve's setup is an interesting approach to use the larger ST size spraybar with the high nitro fuel to make up for the restricted air intake flow. Many guys have use the ST NVA in FOX's an said that it doesn't lose much power. However, that was in the days of open exhaust. With a muffler it takes a double hit. The muffler seems to knock off about 200 - 300 rpm at full tilt but maybe 50 ish at stunt settings.

Has anyone check what the rpm reduction is on the FOX between a reduced size sparybar (like the original or a Randy Smith PA Fox NVA) and the standard ST NVA with a muffler? Then how much nitro (if the base is 5%) is needed to boost rpm back to the rpm with the smaller diameter sparybar? Maybe Steve had something here!

Best,    DennisT


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