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Author Topic: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal  (Read 2671 times)

Offline Dennis Toth

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Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« on: January 06, 2014, 08:16:18 AM »
Guys,
I recently (like Saturday) had my engine bind up and loose power after flying one normal flight. This is the Fox 35 in my El Diablo that I have been flying for about 7 months. The engine has a tongue muffler and I have been running fuel with 26% castor 3% syn and 5% nitro. Because of the tongue muffler I run a light load 9x6 old Top Flite prop at about 9650 rpm release. The motor has run very nice with a classic 4-2-4 break.

This past weekend we finally got a decent day and I was hoping to get some good practice in before KOI. The first flight was normal and I got the cob webs out of the pilot. The engine had a slight crackle to it (has done this since the first flight), I had a K&B long idle bar plug which is one of the hottest. I had done some research and found that the Fox RC long idle bars is suppose to be a medium heat plug, so I thought I would give this a try to pull back the timing a bit. Once fueled I went to start and it popped back, loosened the prop. When I when to start again it was very tight near the top. I pulled it through a few times and it seemed to loosen, so we fired it off. Power was way down but steady. Next flight I went in on the needle 1/4 turn and the flight was flyable but soft, the engine was steady with no crackle. When I went to fly again the engine was tight again and I decided I needed to look inside.

Once on the bench I removed the plug and slowly turned over the engine as I removed the bolts thinking that maybe something caused the case to twist and cause the bind. None of the bolts caused anything and the bind was still there. I pulled the head and saw the vanish. I thought the 3% synth would keep it clean, it didn't. I'm going to go to the 50/50 mix going forward.

Has anyone used a few tanks of high syn oil fuel to clean out varnish? How well did it work?

Best,   DennisT

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 08:33:38 AM »

Has anyone used a few tanks of high syn oil fuel to clean out varnish? How well did it work?

Best,   DennisT

    Not on a Fox, but yes, certainly have done that. In the case of the RO-Jett, switching from 5/17 castor/synthetic to 9/9 makes a marked difference in the run that I attribute to the degree of varnish present. In my case, it takes about 10-15 flights or so to see the full effect of switching from one to the other. It's different from the first run, but continues to change for a long time. And that's only a tiny difference in the oil content.

     All things considered I would probably be happy running straight synthetic if I could get exactly what I wanted in the contents otherwise. I would use 22% of whatever oil they use in Powermaster RO-Jett. I have run straight synthetic before and it was fine, I just couldn't reliably get the mix I wanted. I have also run straight castor in tuned pipe engines, some apparent ill effects and loss of power and responsiveness.

    That is probably not a good idea for the Fox, and varnish probably doesn't hurt it nearly as much as it does ABC engines with tiny internal clearances,  but certainly it makes a difference in varnish buildup.

    Brett

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2014, 10:00:04 AM »
Hi

You can use 25 to 28& oil fuel with 1/2 castor, That is the blend I used in my FOX 35s, and I have many hundreds of runs on them, They are still in very good shape and most are 1970 model 35s. They are in much better condition than ones I used all castor fuel in, and they still have good fits in the bushing, rod, and P/S

Randy

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2014, 01:23:09 PM »
I have a Fox 40th anniversary 35 that I gunked up really bad with all castor fuel (Fox Superfuel).  In the case of my engine, once it got badly varnished up (which would only take a little over 100 flights), running synthetic did NOT de varnish it.  The only way I could get it freed up enough to run right again was to crock pot it, then it would take about ten flights to come in again.  I did that cycle twice on that Fox, and once on an FP-40 before I clued in.

Now I just run Foxes on regular Sig champion 20% half and half fuel.
Steve

Offline bob whitney

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 03:07:26 PM »
if the tongue Muff is too resrtctive it will cause the engine to carbon up more quickly
rad racer

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 07:17:30 PM »
Guys,
I removed the cylinder and piston and checked the rest of the parts. All the bottom end looks good with no wear on the shaft bearing, rod, wrist pin or back plate. I used very fine grade Scotch brite to remove the varnish on the cylinder and piston. There was heavy varnish on the exhaust side but it was easily removed. There was no scratches on either part. Once cleaned I found the fit was a little tight so I re-lapped them with 6 micron diamond compound (left over from my days flying speed). This gave a nice smooth fit that gave great compression. I did a quick no muffler run to blow out any residue, oiled it down and it is ready to go.

Now for the go forward fuel. Because of the muffler I want to reduce the chance of varnish by going to say 50/50 oil blend as Randy suggests. The local hobby shop carries Byron's fuels. They list the % oil and nitro on the bottle. Brett has mentioned Byron fuel a few times and it seems this might work. The Byron that is available is 5% nitro with 20% syn/castor blend oil. I would like to run say 27% total oil so my fuel calculator indicates I should add about 11 oz of oil (I'm thinking Klotz) to bring it to the 27% oil. Does this seem about right or should I add Castor instead?

Best,    DennisT
Best,      DennisT

Online Lauri Malila

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 04:20:08 AM »
Dennis,

I use diamond paste only for lapping steel parts, like shaft/bearing fit and wristpin/conrod pin polishing. Please do yourself a favour and never use diamond paste for piston lapping. It tends to get embedded into aluminium and cast iron and never come out. We lap pistons only in extreme situations, normally we just cut them in final shape&diameter with a good lathe and diamond cutter.
If you have to lap, then you'd better use fine carborundum or aluminium oxide.

For cleaning carbon buildup, paint polishing compound works well. I use Farecla C4 or C3.

Lauri

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 04:21:59 PM »
Maybe next time you might try either  Crock Pot to remove the castor burned on goop, or a can of Berrymans  carb cleaner , this is the can that comes with a dip tray.
Neither is harmful and neither will remove material.
Some say dawn Power Dissolve works well too, however if you use it, it is very corrosive so take all the parts apart and  clean and oil well after cleaning with the power Dissolve

The post above also is worth reading in that  many times what wears out and  engine is debris getting stuck in the soft metal and it wears out the harder surface.

Randy

Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Castor varnish build up - synthetic oil removal
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2014, 12:12:05 PM »
Thanks for the input, I understand both points. For me I have used the fine grade Scotch Brite and diamond lap approach for a long time and have not had anything wear our because of it. I first read about this in something that GMA wrote 30+ year ago. If anyone tries this you need to go slow and check often to only get the varnish off not try to polish the metal (this would wear stuff out). I would say if in double don't try this on your best/favorite engine the first time, use Randy's approach.

Best,          DennisT


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