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Author Topic: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please  (Read 1432 times)

Offline David Ebers

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Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« on: December 07, 2023, 08:40:51 AM »
What info can you share about these engines. I'll post pictures when I figure out how. I can email pictures to those interested.

OS MAX. 20, older, looks like muffler, if one, attached with single bolt centered in exhaust.

OS MAX-H 29R-integral spinner

McCoy 19 rear intake-head and front of case is red, the venturi is part of the rear case

Tipan (sp) 2.5cc rear exhaust r/c carb.

Thanks,
David

Online Dave_Trible

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2023, 11:57:24 AM »
What info can you share about these engines. I'll post pictures when I figure out how. I can email pictures to those interested.

OS MAX. 20, older, looks like muffler, if one, attached with single bolt centered in exhaust.

OS MAX-H 29R-integral spinner

McCoy 19 rear intake-head and front of case is red, the venturi is part of the rear case

Tipan (sp) 2.5cc rear exhaust r/c carb.

Thanks,
David
I've not had experience with these BUT they are all very old engines- 1950s-60s.   The Max 20 might be useful on a small airplane like a Ringmaster or smaller.  The Max 29 was built for speed,  or maybe 'B' team race.   The McCoy is early in the glow era-maybe 1950-54.   I won't produce a ton of power but might run well.   The Taipan I know nothing about at all.  I'm sure this didn't help much...

Dave
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FAA Certificate FA3ATY4T94

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2023, 02:26:45 PM »
There's test of the Max 20 from 1972 https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/OS%20Max%2020.html

A 1949 test of the McCoy 19RR at https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/McCoy%2019%20RR.html

The OS H29R is from 1964 and is essentially a twin ball race version of the H29. The R would indicate it's for Rat Racing or maybe speed given that it's a 29. Sorry, no tests of that engine.

The Taipan is easy (for me anyway) because I have two them, one has never been run. They were made here in Adelaide by Gordon Burford and there's a test at https://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Taipan%20.15%20Gold%20Head.html where the photos at the bottom show my unrun engine. The tested engine was the first version which had a smaller width rear bearing while mine has the larger width rear bearing but you kind of have to know what to look for to see the difference. The crankcase where the rear bearing sits has been extended slightly towards the carb area. Back in the day they were a match for the K&B 15 series 72. The other Taipan that I've used is the earlier small rear bearing.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2023, 05:39:31 PM »
If theyre not clapped out , theyre usefull .

Usually youd strip & check the wrist pins free & polish the gunge off of it . etc etc and so on .

the 20 is usefully LIGHT , and good instead of a .15 for combat , peacemaker , flite strea etc . theres the old jetstream & newer 702 ? strap on muffler . 8 x 6 or 9 x 4 prop . o.k. on NO Nitro .

PULL THE HEAD & BACKPLATE , if its squeaky clean should be good , if its effluential clean & polish the bits wots supposed to be shiny .



The H 29 R , is a T B R big shaft OS 30 S . AS IN the rod , wrist pin , liner & piston are THE SAME . ( and findable new )
was a SPEED engine , but used for team race . ( was a rare H 29 TR too ) bout the same as a Enya TBR or S Tigre 21/29 FI almost .

Probly run good on a 9 x 6 or 10 x 6 for stunt !  S?P

the 60s OS max H 40 with RC stamped on a round bit , and a .35 C are simlar but single ball race ( some parts interchange )
The RR & SP ? were TBR .

The weird narrow rear bearing is still available as a special , from NTN .

The 35 s P/L & Head would .35 erise it . a Gardner ABC H 35 S !  VD~

These old dogs often have gummed wrist pins , which wont help anything . If its Not stored Oiled . So CHECK its clean inside .

the OS 40 stunt etc intakes ( & FSR ) fit . came out around 1965 with the .35 C . theres wedge & hemi heads .

In short , all the ones pre the h 40 with JUST . 40 cast on the side , are related . the 20 & .25 are very similar .

TBR & SBR prop drive are tell tale . for that .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2023, 11:21:46 PM »
Theres Guru's , gurus , and gurus . mr Rojett & Mr Nelson might be gurus . Others are encylopediatic . or a bit of a encyclopediatic .

OS Engine Genuine parts & Accessories
Code Number #22130004
For: FT-120 II, 160 and FF-240,320
Crankshaft Ball Bearing (M)

B B B By BONE ! . (( BOCA  also carry ones to fit )) .

Now over 2.5 years since the last post here about the OS Max-H 40 bearing size.

I have 5 of these engines with 2 currently pulled apart for cleaning. One engine has an NTN main bearing, the other engine has an NMB main bearing. Both engines have the NTN 607Z front bearing.

Both bearings measure an identical size to the bearing described by Sheriff_1969 in Post #74. There is only 1 difference discernible between the NTN & NMB bearings in my engines - the NTN bearing is stamped "OS130" whilst the NMB bearing is stamped "OS-130".
===================================================================================================================================

just checking a 35S piston for a 35 C . identical bar two holes . ( these were ' trick ' in the 60s . cooled & lubed under piston .) the 35 C timings ultra conservative . 108 & 130 , 47 - 40 crank . or thereabouts( unexact )
As the 35 s top end goesinna 30 , itll goinna 29 R .
PProbly run harder with the bigger crank passaage .
But the Crank Timing ( from 1965 ) is  likely stunt friendly !

Was the Pre ' pipe ' era , and THEY took a decade or more to go wild .

=============================================

OK peoples the OS Bearing has finally arrived!

On the packaging it says the following:

OS Engine Genuine parts & Accessories
Code Number #22130004
For: FT-120 II, 160 and FF-240,320
Crankshaft Ball Bearing (M)

Now I have measured the Bearing as recommended by gkamysz (Post #70) and came up with the following measurements:

Overall Diameter: 28mm
Inside Diameter: 12.95mm
Thickness: 6.31mm

It would appear Gents that this bearing has exactly the same dimensions as the OS130 Bearing that came out of my OS MAX 40-H engine.

The other thing to report here is that the stamping on the Bearing says the following;

NTN JAPAN KC SC01A38 (the third digit in the part number is a zero NOT 'O' for Oscar)

Hope this information helps people...

Regards

Sheriff_1969

So if the comps gone , throw in a 30s or 35 S liner , & head on the later . it bolts straight up .

Offline David Ebers

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2023, 07:56:23 PM »
Thanks for the information gentlemen, especially the articles on the Taipan 2.5cc and the McCoy 19. My Dad had these two as long as I can remember, at least 40 years. I don't remember him putting wither on an airplane.


David

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2023, 10:29:17 PM »
I've not had experience with these BUT they are all very old engines- 1950s-60s.   The Max 20 might be useful on a small airplane like a Ringmaster or smaller. 

   No chance, it is not nearly as powerful as, say, a 15FP. It's for the "15-19" size models of the day, like the Shark 15.

    Brett

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2023, 10:13:36 PM »
If'n ya lookat the Injun Tests , theyre running - LA 15 Vs max 20 - about the same rpm on 8x5 & 8x6 props , or the 20's better . LA has a few more revs on a smaller prop , tho theres NO output graphs for the LA ,
one would presume its got higher rpm peak . LA is a ounce or two lighter . A intresting fing , is a old max .15 will swing a 9 x 4 just about as hard as the .20 , for 2/3rd the weight .

A OS max .20 will fly the aeromudler ' Peacemaker ' ( 36 span profile flight streak ) on 60 foot of .012 through the schedule , at around 15 ounce all up , on a balmy summer evening , on STRAIGHT FUEL . No Nitro .
bit tighter on 52 foot . 55 probly the best choice . A GOOD one is a GOOD ENGINE .


ACTUALLY ONE ( the outer ) would do repeat consecutive wing overs , muffled , straight fuel , on a 38 ounce twin 50 inch span , profile twin .
IF you KEEP IT SMOOTH , And the Rounds below 45 hight . The 4th consecutive you start to pull out upright , out of it , and then slam on DOWN .
The whole row of onlookers eyes were - left - right - left , right , etc . the Whole Row looked left and Ducked & Covered as a man , as it went opposite .  ;D  S?P .

Was actual 41 Oz. wiff mufflas .

Eye detalkil , almost . butof better wood . Both for full schedule , 60 x .015 or 70 x . 012 IN THE CALM . 1974 / 75 TORBAY . crucified unsecured by a moron s top box on the motorway . GROWN UPS ! . ::) :P

Quote
Vintage Os max 20
on u tube . theyed fly a light 40 inch R C thing . the .25 will pull a B team racer at 90 for 5.000.000 laps . Twice a race .29 , anyway . Same Injun , but 25 % bore & stroke job .
Theyll blow off a dungey Oliver 85 mph combat wing , with a drop of nitro . Bout thesame with none . around ' the tow ' of a .19DS paw , in fact .20 5 nitro'd have a clean goodyear past the ton , on say a 7 x 8 prop .

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2023, 12:10:56 AM »
If'n ya lookat the Injun Tests , theyre running - LA 15 Vs max 20 - about the same rpm on 8x5 & 8x6 props , or the 20's better . LA has a few more revs on a smaller prop , tho theres NO output graphs for the LA ,
one would presume its got higher rpm peak . LA is a ounce or two lighter . A intresting fing , is a old max .15 will swing a 9 x 4 just about as hard as the .20 , for 2/3rd the weight .

     Note I said 15FP, not an LA.

     The baffle-piston Max 20s is a moderate improvement over a Max II or III 15 on similar models. The 20S is absolutely no match for a Veco 19 (either version) and additionally, you will break the crankshaft if you try to run it at the same sorts of speeds. I know, I did it, breaking both my 20S and 25S crankshafts trying to run 7.5-4s fast enough to fly the larger 15-size models.

    I also flew the 20S on the Skyray 25 as part of that experiment, it was the weakest engine of all those tested, by a lot, and had the additional feature of being absurdly noisy since I have never had a muffler for it. All the other engines I tried came with very effective mufflers. The only other engine that was in the ballpark of power and also noisy was the 1947 Duromatic McCoy 19RR, which was  slightly more powerful but nearly hopeless in flight with the stock venturi arrangement.

    The 20S was the first "big" engine I bought with my own money. It works nicely as a power upgrade over the MAX-III 15 for typical 15-sized models like the Shark 15, Junior Nobler, Flite Streak Jr, etc. It's a bit of a bomb on the tiny little Ringmaster Junior*.   This is another example I have tested very extensively back in the day.
     
     Brett

*Not having learned my lesson earlier, my Ringmaster Jr had a Supertigre G20/.23 and was clocked well over 80 mph, on the few laps it was ever able to stay together. It was such bad airplane with egregious workmanship and *ugly*, I left it in the corner of the attic of the house when we moved away. Probably still there, 1410 Lenore Street, Benton, AR, if someone wants to crawl up there and check.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2023, 11:26:30 PM »
Was ,likely my first ' new ' engine too . If we dont c*unt the katipo ( or the other way round )
 which after the entire district gave up trying to start after six months , was likely sufficently loose for ME to start , to their dismay .

We used Castor from the chemists and bulk shell methanol . And religiously followed the instructions . Tell a lie , think the DS PAW was before it . But No Nitrate and it was a finger butcherer .
Took Off once with the Flingle Bunt - first loop I think . Such Power ! sufficent to wreck it on the next flight anyway , having to adjust the settings for each ' start ' .

Previous it was a sucession of used diesels 7 glows . U.S. ones with NO NITRO . dismal , green head torps & the like . that had previously suffered . All bar the Mills cause shock & trauma on recall
of their usefullness . ZILCH .

the OS 20 were $ 30 N.Z. from Radar Co. in Kowloon , Hong kong . Was lectured by a turkey in the nzmaa that we were disloyal to the country and should buy them of the mangey pom for $ 130 .
" But theyre all R.C. , we want control line " . -. ' oh no , thats extra , you have to buy the r.c. ' Arsey Indeed . You can figure . I figure youd get rid of most of the crooks if you deported 80 % of them .

FROM RADAR they came with THREE ventuies , stunt , std , and Combat , with the pressure nipple . I think thet was what went in the 30 , the biggest . 20 one , was smaller than std . .30 .

SO , just running em for a few hours ( always in fact ) without NITRO , I think the ' run in ' has as much to do with it as a carefully assembled pommy motorcycle .2000 miles to free off , then still getting faster at 5000

The g 15 had a year or more on no nitro , later with 10 5 it'd top out at 24.000 in the air on a taipan 7x6 . 120 odd . tho earlier It'd broken the sound barrier flying it in a hurricane .  ;D

So , for me , anyway , the ' bedding in ' proceedure on this ancient junk makes it or breaks it . swy a 650 would run a 900 kaw & a 750 Norton a xs11 , aceleratively , or betterem .
MISSUSE of the next owner the clapped out t120 with one intact ring , rooted clutch & no go or bite stuill ran 14.5 @ 90 . same as the RingDing 350 there , at the ' Sprint meet ' my then A10 ran 16.9 @ 81
as they did new , but Id thought i couldve gone faster afoot , than with that . NZ also is a cooler place without the searing summer temperatures of the big continants .So less duress when under duress !

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Attention engine Gurus. Engine info please
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2023, 11:45:19 PM »
These birds were doing 90 mph . enya 19 B.B. on 20 % Nitro . My PAW manadged to stagger into the path of one , apparently , and wrecked it . The G 15 started better . The OS was civilised .
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 09:44:00 PM by Air Ministry . »


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