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Author Topic: 4-2-4 On Bench??  (Read 1188 times)

Offline Jerry Bohn

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4-2-4 On Bench??
« on: September 18, 2007, 09:36:37 AM »
I've noticed with all my .40 and .46 size engines, that they have a 4-2-4 break on the test bench when breaking in, at almost any needle setting.
However I spent a lot of time to get the right needle setting on the ground to have it 4-2-4 during flight. Any ideas about why that is?
Jerry Bohn

Offline Bill Little

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 09:37:49 AM »
Hi Jerry,

No expert on these things, but I would think it is because the load on the engine is constant on the bench, while it changes a bunch in the air.  ???
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Manuel Cortes

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 03:46:02 PM »
Hi all.
Itīs relatively easy (at least for my experience) to make any sort (or almost) engine to break in the bench but........ when flight loads begin to alter the torque, usually, only the best mantain the beloved character.......is in the air where the engine must show the pedigre.
Itīs my personal expreience, probably must be grown with the guruīs one..... letīs them talk!!!!!!
Kind regards from Spain.
Manuel.

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 01:06:24 PM »
When you run an engine on the ground it is loaded more.  The prop pitch is "true" when static (no forward movement).  As the prop moves forward it is actually reducing pitch relative to air speed, which reduces the load.

So, when it is running on the bench it is actually cavitating and creating turbulence which is drag.  When it is in the air it is penetrating like a screw.

That is why a properly setup stunt engine (of any kind---including a 4 cycle) should richen slightly after takeoff.  If it goes the other direction, it is starving and going lean.  You typically see this on profiles that are sucking fuel uphill against centrifugal force (leaning after takeoff).  The Paul Walker style Saito run also did this.

To get a motor on the edge of the 4-2 break it may have to run much harder (mostly 2 cycling) on the ground.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2007, 01:23:43 PM »
Thanks men, pretty well answers my question, especially Bradleys more technical answer. Appeciate all replies towad a better explanation of what is going on.
Jerry Bohn

Offline Bill Little

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 11:40:13 AM »
Wish I could tell you more, but my Grand Dad had the Engineering Degree from NC State, not me!

The load on the engine is different while it is stationary vs. in flight.  The changing loads in flight are what causes the 4-2 break............... I guess!!  LL~  H^^
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 01:15:47 PM »
TY, I am using 15% nitro in all my engines. Lub 22% 1/2-1/2 (except for Fox35's).

List of my engines:
2-Silver Fox.40
1-OSLA.25
1-OSLA.40
1-OSLA.46
1 OSfp.40
1-OSsfs.46
2-Fox.35 Stunt 60th Annv.
1-PA.40RE UL,new, not used yet.
Jerry Bohn

Offline Bill Little

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2007, 09:00:30 PM »
I've noticed with all my .40 and .46 size engines, that they have a 4-2-4 break on the test bench when breaking in, at almost any needle setting.
However I spent a lot of time to get the right needle setting on the ground to have it 4-2-4 during flight. Any ideas about why that is?

Thinking back over this, I think you really want to know if everyone takes a lot of time finding the "needle".  All stunt engines will run right on the bench and different in the plane, according to the needle settings.  Some more than others.

In the beginning, i had to fiddle quite a bit with each one getting to run in the air correctly.  After a while, I learned what the correct sound was and got the needle to that.  then it was usually a couple of "needle" flights and tank trim (maybe) to get the run near to where I wanted it.  I made two "needle" flights on my new Vulcan.  I took out about 1/2 the fuel for those.  First one too rich, next one closer, then the third I put about one more "click" on it and filled 'er up.  Now I will just need to maybe get a slight turn next time out, or when I go to another location.  "getting a needle" is sort of a learned experience.  The bench is really more for just breaking an engine in and learning a little about what it needs to get started quickly, IMHO.  Not where you get your flight settings. 

Another thing to remember, if the engine is propped close to correctly, it wil richen after it gets in the air.  The prop "unloads", thus the engine goes richer.  I have always referred to the proper ground setting as a "cackle".  The engine is just rich enough to not stay in a solid 2 cycle, but it's not in a rich 4 cycle.  RFandy Smith is always saying that his engines should be in a hard 4 cycle in less than a lap from launch.
Big Bear <><

Aberdeen, NC

James Hylton Motorsports/NASCAR/ARCA

AMA 95351 (got one of my old numbers back! ;D )

Trying to get by

Offline Jerry Bohn

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Re: 4-2-4 On Bench??
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2007, 08:10:45 PM »
I get the drift about difference between bench and flying.
I've been reading Richard Olivers articles in Control Line World about Finding the Stunt Needle. Plan on following his advice on a couple engines. The articles not only tells you what to do, to get the best needle setting setting, but also tells you how to get the best stunt run.
Very interesting articles. Check it out, worth the price of getting the magazine.
Jerry Bohn


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