Author Topic: Winder update (Read 3521 times)

Dwayne · « **on:** January 29, 2010, 09:09:07 PM »

Ready for final sanding and finish. It went together very easy and I'd like to thank Lazerworks for a great short kit.

Tom Luciano · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:52:06 AM »

Dwayne,
Looks very cool! What did you use to terminate the stabilator. We use to use celastic but I dont think thats available anymore. I just ordered a couple of short kits from Lazer works myself. Nice to deal with them and I cant wait for my stuff to come!

John Sunderland · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2010, 09:11:54 AM »

Had not seen one of these since I was in grade school. I watched a local flyer get screwed into the ground it seemed, flying one of these. At the time, it was the fastest and quickest turning model I had ever seen! Never saw one in the ring with another model. How does it do?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2010, 10:47:41 AM »

This brings back memories. Never got to fly mine in a contest. It was one fast model and could turn great without losing speed. Then the Nemesis came along.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2010, 12:52:46 PM »

I built several Winders with pacifier pods back in the early 70s and powered them with G21s at first. It was fast but very nose heavy with that motor, and after enough tail weight was added it was fairly heavy. It was slower with a C35 but turned much better. With that high aspect ratio it seemed to keep up speed better in the turns, but the wings would fold unless a plywood L.E. doubler was built in, or the center section was beefed up. Maybe a 36XBB would have been a better choice in that era.

Dwayne · « **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2010, 05:48:26 PM »

Thanks everyone, this one will be powered by a Fox .35 on a bladder and yes even with a little fox it's still a bit nose heavy, I've seen this combo fly and should fly about 78 mph and turns on a dime

. Tom... if you mean the blue material it's cut from hospital towels my G/F brings home real tough stuff...lol

Chad Hill · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2010, 05:54:45 PM »

Looks real nice...how're you gonna finish it?

Dwayne · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:31:53 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on January 30, 2010, 05:54:45 PM

Looks real nice...how're you gonna finish it?

Thanks Chad
Blue with white booms stab and engine pod.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2010, 08:45:05 PM »

Sounds neat. Here's one I built 7 or 8 years ago, still fly it occassionally...

Dwayne · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2010, 05:29:55 AM »

Hey Chad very nice. If I knew where to get pacifiers I'd build one like that, where do you get your's.
Thanks

Chad Hill · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2010, 12:12:07 PM »

Thanks Dwayne. Gerber used to make a pacifier that was nearly identical to the old binkys, not sure if they still do. Kinda expensive at Walmart, about $2 each...

Too bad Prather didn't design the Winder for a pacifier from the beginning; didn't they use them on the west coast by the late '60s? Because he decided to use a long metal tank inside a 1" thick airfoil he had to place the spar far aft in the wing where it contributed little to structural integrity. With a pacifier pod he could have run spars underneath the aft edge of the L.E. sheeting. The wing would have been far stronger and less prone to folding...

About 1970 a Detroiter named Carl Shoemaker (?) designed the Laser. With three booms it resembled the high-aspect ratio Winder, but was a big improvement. It had a thick airfoil which housed a bladder tube and two strong spars. The booms were further aft than on the Winder, and 1" was added to the wing chord. Span was 44". It was a very good all-around performer with a G21. Lots of young upcoming guys in the area flew them like Ron Columbo, Al Dennison and Mark Daniels.

Be sure to send us more pics of the finished bird, Dwayne!

Stan Bidowski · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2010, 12:38:48 PM »

Hi Dwayne, a few years back ( 2002-2003 ) in Winnipeg, Kevin King built a Winder. He covered it in silk
and gave it one of his well known, super slik, paint jobs, then buffed it out! It was extremely
overpowered with a Fox Combat engine ( a Mark 5 ). There is a video of it
on YouTube. Here's a link for your viewing:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=metal4ever1965#p/u/64/WSqHSbjiqmE

I think it's going even faster then 120 mph in the video, but I wan't there to time it.
Current 1/2A combat planes have more wing area. A neat nostalgia trip. Should fly
well with a Fox 35.

Stan Bidowski

Paul Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2010, 12:57:32 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on January 31, 2010, 12:12:07 PM

About 1970 a Detroiter named Carl Shoemaker (?) designed the Laser. With three booms it resembled the high-aspect ratio Winder, but was a big improvement. It had a thick airfoil which housed a bladder tube and two strong spars. The booms were further aft than on the Winder, and 1" was added to the wing chord. Span was 44". It was a very good all-around performer with a G21. Lots of young upcoming guys in the area flew them like Ron Columbo, Al Dennison and Mark Daniels.

Claire Shoemaker, founder of The Detroit Combat Team.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2010, 01:04:12 PM »

OOps, that's right...actually, that's what I remembered (Claire) but my wife came by and said that Claire is only a woman's name, and it got me wondering, so I added the (?) in the post. Didn't Melvin Matthews help him found it, too? Long time ago-

Dwayne · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2010, 02:24:22 PM »

Quote from: Stan Bidowski on January 31, 2010, 12:38:48 PM

Hi Dwayne, a few years back ( 2002-2003 ) in Winnipeg, Kevin King built a Winder. He covered it in silk
and gave it one of his well known, super slik, paint jobs, then buffed it out! It was extremely
overpowered with a Fox Combat engine ( a Mark 5 ). There is a video of it
on YouTube. Here's a link for your viewing:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=metal4ever1965#p/u/64/WSqHSbjiqmE

I think it's going even faster then 120 mph in the video, but I wan't there to time it.
Current 1/2A combat planes have more wing area. A neat nostalgia trip. Should fly
well with a Fox 35.

Stan Bidowski

Thanks Stan good video

Paul Smith · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2010, 03:59:37 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on January 31, 2010, 01:04:12 PM

OOps, that's right...actually, that's what I remembered (Claire) but my wife came by and said that Claire is only a woman's name, and it got me wondering, so I added the (?) in the post. Didn't Melvin Matthews help him found it, too? Long time ago-

I might have misspelled it, but it's the short form of Clarence, maybe it should be "Clare"?
Clare returned to town after a stint in the USAF and gave some adult supervision the DCT. Yes, Melvin was one of the charter members.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2010, 06:20:36 PM »

I'll say they needed some adult supervision! I rode to the '72 (or '73?) Glenview Nats in the back of Al's van with Al, Ron, Mark and Pete Somebody. We hitched up with Bernie Varnau and at the tender age of 16 I learned to play poker. By the time we returned to Detroit I was pennyless.

That's all I'm saying....

Picture from 1971 (this one had a G21 with a metal tank. wing folded)

Dwayne · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:01:25 AM »

That's a kewl pic

Chad Hill · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2010, 09:05:56 AM »

Here's another....ooops, sorry--that's not a Winder!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2010, 09:43:55 AM »

That has to be an Oklahoma Twister or a version of it. Another plane that will get the adrenaline up. Been checking the sites and may have to get a couple of the Winder kits. Now i know that Barry has the plans. The only wing I ever folded was my first VooDoo. Drilled thru leading edge for the fuel tank. Of course I always glassed the center sections of all my combat planes.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2010, 11:26:04 AM »

Yep, John, it's a Super Twister. The picture is about 30 years old. ST 35C, bladder. Weighed about 14 ounces. I had just finished it. Don't ask me how it flew. A few minutes after these pictures were taken the future wife walked into the room, somehow failed to see it, and stepped on it with both feet.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:12:40 PM »

I remember seeing the old "Chip-A-Way" kits of the Twister with a cartoon of a brave chipping a Twister out of a log with a tomahawk (not Veco).

-------BREAK-BREAK---- new subject!!

1972 or 73?? That was after Clare whipped 'em into shape.

The wilder days were 67-to-70.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2010, 04:53:09 PM »

Yep, it was a Chip-A-Way kit that she squashed. I was crushed, too-

I checked and it was the '72 Nats. Clare must not have been along. I think Al was kinda in charge since he was driving his van, and it seems like he was the oldest. In any case, he had the shortest hair, and my parents trusted him

but they hadn't met Ron

or Mark

. I had saved for months for the trip from my Detroit News paper route and was broke when I got back. Yes, the drinking age was 18 then but I was only 16, so that couldn't have had anything to do with it at all.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Dwayne · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2010, 06:38:18 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on February 01, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

Yep, John, it's a Super Twister. The picture is about 30 years old. ST 35C, bladder. Weighed about 14 ounces. I had just finished it. Don't ask me how it flew. A few minutes after these pictures were taken the future wife walked into the room, somehow failed to see it, and stepped on it with both feet.

Now that's a sweet looking plane!

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2010, 06:50:23 PM »

Quote from: Chad Hill on February 01, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

Yep, John, it's a Super Twister. The picture is about 30 years old. ST 35C, bladder. Weighed about 14 ounces. I had just finished it. Don't ask me how it flew. A few minutes after these pictures were taken the future wife walked into the room, somehow failed to see it, and stepped on it with both feet.

!!! And you married her anyway?? Must be a super lady...

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #25 on:** February 01, 2010, 07:04:11 PM »

Quote from: Stan Bidowski on January 31, 2010, 12:38:48 PM

Hi Dwayne, a few years back ( 2002-2003 ) in Winnipeg, Kevin King built a Winder. He covered it in silk
and gave it one of his well known, super slik, paint jobs, then buffed it out! It was extremely
overpowered with a Fox Combat engine ( a Mark 5 ). There is a video of it
on YouTube. Here's a link for your viewing:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=metal4ever1965#p/u/64/WSqHSbjiqmE

I think it's going even faster then 120 mph in the video, but I wan't there to time it.
Current 1/2A combat planes have more wing area. A neat nostalgia trip. Should fly
well with a Fox 35.

Stan Bidowski

Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade, but if that video is real-time it's nowhere near 120 mph. Pretty easy to clock the level laps and check it. Even on 70' lines, it couldn't be more than 100mph; if 60' lines, more like 85 mph.

Doesn't change the fun of it, though, nor the adrenalin rush flying a high-performance plane like that!

phil c · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2010, 12:08:22 PM »

Quote from: Stan Bidowski on January 31, 2010, 12:38:48 PM

......I think it's going even faster then 120 mph in the video, but I wan't there to time it.....

Stan Bidowski

assuming the video timing is correct, I got about 18.2-4/7 laps, with a bit of high flying. So, that would make it around 95mph or so.(18 sec/7 laps is 100 mph). The Mark V is not a real speedy combat engine, so 95 is pretty good.

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #27 on:** February 04, 2010, 07:06:13 PM »

I thought it sounded like lean run......then it was.(video)

I can remember about 5 winders.
I don't remember any that did not fold.

The Spectrum( Dumas?) was much better airplane than the fold-a-matic Winder.

Carl Berryman Designed the Twister and super Twister and a longer span version--the Typhoon?(water twister)
Will ask Jim P. next time I see him, think he still has a few hanging on the wall.

David

Chad Hill · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2010, 05:04:43 PM »

Hi W.D.,

I think Carl Berryman's longer span Super Twister was the Phantasy, and it had three booms. I got the plans from Bare and mean to build one some day.

Yep, I built a Spectrum about 1972 and it was a good bird until one of the Rudner brothers ran through the middle of it.

Bare has Spectrum plans, too--

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2010, 08:29:17 PM »

Dwayne
You Winder is looking good!!!!

Even with the Fox you will have a blast!
If not to late do something to reinforce the center.
Even with the light engine it is going to fold one day.

Thanks Chad!

Phantasy it was!! Came to him in a dream I think?
My opinion is that the Phantasy although more span then Super twister was still to small.

I have a couple of sets of spectrum plans left. the were full sized.
At one time I had 10 Spectrum's.
Went like this........

I was flying slow( and fast with spectrums) at a local contest and lost out in first round.
Think I was about 12 at the time.
Well I had a whole air force of slow's that I had accumulated over time including flight streaks, red wing senior wing on flight streak and a Tom Tom(Dumas) wing on a flight streak and a ringmaster or 2.

Well.....Dad asked if he could use my slows and enter open slow. SURE DAD!!!!!!
So he paid for AMA license and entry.
Wow! this is great, Dad back to flying!!!! or so I thought........

By the end of the day he had first place and my air force was gone.
Dad could see that his 12 year old boy was on the verge of tears.
The next day(Monday) he came home with the back seat of that Buick Wildcat full of Spectrums!!!!!

Moral of that story is if someone needs your combat planes let the have them!!!

David
51336

Chad Hill · « **Reply #30 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:07:01 PM »

Funny story, W.D.! Since I've been a dad, too, for a couple decades, I can sympathize with that old rascal--

I can only count nine here...