Author Topic: vintage combat (Read 5907 times)

Steven Kientz · « **on:** April 11, 2008, 01:55:16 PM »

This is a test. anyone know the year and contest?

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2008, 03:52:28 PM »

No, but that looks like a Super Swoop on a pacifier...G21 Supertiger maybe?

Not that you asked any of that.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2008, 06:30:08 AM »

I know its the '69 NATS, I thought that might be a Winder. As far as the flyer...?

Steve

Paul Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2008, 09:25:56 AM »

I can't identify the flyer.

The plane looks like a cross between a Swoop and a Winder.

The Winder was high aspect, the Swoop was much lower aspect. The photo looks like, maybe, a homebuilt that was a compromise between the two.

I build a Sterling Swoop from a kit. Heaaaavvvy! Back to Combat Cats.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2008, 02:05:23 PM »

Here's a pic from Baxter's of a Super Swoop...I dunno, looks pretty similar to me. With reversed wingtips, maybe.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2008, 05:21:40 PM »

I think the Winder & Super Swoop are nearly identical, at least in the pictures that I've seen. I have some other pictures but the files are to large. Might try to crop and post them later.

Steve

Just One-eye · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2008, 11:06:34 AM »

The Winder is actually quite small, with a very thin wing (that often folded in midair). Swoops and Super Swoops had a far more "normal" airfoil thickness and chord. You can see illustrations of both, I'm pretty sure, at Barry Baxter's CL Plans website. There was another relatively small, relatively narrow chord combat design, kitted by Midwest, called the Matador, that was far better than the Winder, IMO (the stabilator on the Matador might have looked a little like the one in the lead photo here, but that's the only piece that survived from one of those that I had back in the late 1960's to early 1970's). Look that one up at Baxter's site while you're there!

Just One-eye · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2008, 11:16:22 AM »

Quote from: ama21835 on April 12, 2008, 09:25:56 AM

The plane looks like a cross between a Swoop and a Winder.

The Winder was high aspect, the Swoop was much lower aspect. The photo looks like, maybe, a homebuilt that was a compromise between the two.

It looks like a Matador with the three-boom stabilator from a Super Swoop . .

http://www.controllineplans.com/frameset2.htm

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2008, 01:52:00 PM »

If you enlarge the picture you can see where something is written on the wing. I couldn't make it out,but maybe someone else can. AMA # is visible.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2008, 09:33:28 PM »

Looks like a Tyrantula 2, but moded with three booms and a plastic pacifier pod like the Spectrum had. G-21 35. Short hair for '69....

phil c · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2008, 09:51:53 AM »

Looks like a Spectrum, with a modified stab. At the right tip you can just make out the wing sheeting/tip brace which puts the leading edge sheeting back behind the pacifier pod. Anybody know Randy Wilging, the designer. Might be him in the pic.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2008, 06:31:44 PM »

This picture is the same NATS. This is Carl Schilling, flew with my father out of Indpls.

Steve

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2008, 08:09:34 PM »

Plane on (our) left appears to be a Demon, Riley Wooten's diamond airfoil design?

Yup, first pic does look like the Spectrum. Ad does the right ship above.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #13 on:** April 15, 2008, 01:56:08 PM »

Here is a real beauty, hopefully it survived this day. Second picture is some planes from Indy combat team

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #14 on:** April 15, 2008, 04:34:43 PM »

Voodoo on top, looks like a Nemesis peeking out underneath.

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #15 on:** April 15, 2008, 06:21:21 PM »

Did you notice the numbers on the stabilators- I assume 69 for the year and then plane number.
Steve

Chad Hill · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2008, 09:10:48 PM »

The red beauty in the top pic looks like an Exterminator.

Chad Hill · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2008, 09:47:54 PM »

With regards to the original bird that is the subject of this post: If you look at the shape of the tips and the stab, they look more like a Tyrantula 2 than a Spectrum. The motor mounts extend further aft on the Spectrum. A lot of guys copied the Spectrum plastic pacifier pod in those days, it was quicker and easier to make (but weaker). Three boom mods were all the rage, too, a-la Terry Prather's 1967 Winder. I suspect the bird is a Tyrantula 2 moded for a G21. The T2 was originally designed for the lighter Fox 36X. Adding a third boom would CG it better for a G21. The T2 was a great flyer, in the Nemesis class. Just my 2 cents....

Joe Yau · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2008, 12:30:23 PM »

Maybe its a Winder with modified wing tips and Spectrum pacifier tank?

Here's pic from a old kit that was never built...

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2008, 04:18:02 PM »

Unless someone knows the flier we'll never know.

Steve

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 18, 2008, 07:19:46 PM »

We were using the plastic balls for pacifier holders 'way back in the dark ages...

Yes, that's 18-yr.-old me! Musta been about 1962? or thereabouts.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2008, 07:36:49 AM »

Hey Ray you kid, do you remember flying against the likes of the Meriwethers, Dunham and Houghts. I don't know if Randy Cuberly was there or not. I didn't get back to KC until the fall of 62. My first big contest was in Wichita(63), but, Berryman wasn't there. I turned 21 in Dec of 62 and was called the farm boy by members of the Flying Eagles MAC of Kansas City Kansas. Now to the young man in the lead photo of this thread, maybe that was his own design as most were tending to do in that period of time. Later, DOC Holliday

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2008, 09:54:20 AM »

Hey John,

Being from OK, I was more oriented toward the Okies and Texans--I flew against (note I didn't say "competed with," no competition to them) Carl Berryman, James Mears, Riley Wooten, Wayne Welch, Norman Barnes, Gerald Sanders, Marlin McGee, etc., etc.

Berryman and Wooten in particular, were a couple of the most gracious fliers I ever met...Carl was about a hundred feet tall, but would hold his hand down at shoulder level when at the top of the circle so as to give you a fighting chance at reaching him, not that he needed his height advantage anyhow. Riley would always say "Boy you young bucks are sure makin' it hard on me", as he shredded your streamer at will. They sure could give a guy a combat lesson!

Not to say the other guys mentioned weren't gentlemen in the circle as well. "Them wuz the days!"

Biggest thing I was ever involved in at KC was a 5000 lap (yes, 3 zeros) Rat Race. Talk about equipment attrition!

--Ray

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2008, 12:30:42 PM »

My father told me he flew against Wooten,Nats in Calif.? He even got a cut on him,Riley promptly stopped fooling around and got the kill.

Steve

Dennis Leonhardi · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2016, 09:50:20 AM »

Quote from: Steven Kientz on April 11, 2008, 01:55:16 PM

This is a test. anyone know the year and contest?

Just ran into this browsing some old topics ... The flyer is Jim Ehlen of Crystal, MN (a Minneapolis suburb) holding a Tyrantula at the '69 Nats, where he placed 2nd in Senior Combat.

Jim is still flying combat 47 years later!

Dennis

john e. holliday · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2016, 11:08:33 AM »

Finally an answer, thanks, DOC Holliday.

Bob Mears · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2016, 08:00:47 AM »

I do believe that is Larry Driskill in the background too.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2016, 02:48:20 PM »

Quote from: AirClassix on March 28, 2016, 09:50:20 AM

Just ran into this browsing some old topics ... The flyer is Jim Ehlen of Crystal, MN (a Minneapolis suburb) holding a Tyrantula at the '69 Nats, where he placed 2nd in Senior Combat.

Jim is still flying combat 47 years later!

Dennis

Just found this thread. I recognized the face and thought he might be the guy who I flew against in the Senior Combat final match at the 1969 NATS held at Willow Grove, Pa N.A.S.
I'm glad he's still flying and extend my kind regards to him.
I won that year , but it could have easily been him.
Frank