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Author Topic: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..  (Read 1236 times)

Offline GEORGE CONNORS

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FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« on: May 29, 2020, 05:21:14 PM »

Did anyone use this covering in the 70's/80's for their combat ships.   It was before Phil's covering Ibelieve.  I think the product was used for laminating, e.g. menus...It was very strong, pretty much tear resistent. 

What did you think of it?
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Offline Oldenginerod

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 07:14:04 PM »
I've heard of doculam laminating film being used.  Maybe the same stuff.

Online mike londke

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 07:30:46 PM »
Still using it. Great stuff, very tough with adhesive already applied. Peel and stick. I was lucky enough to buy a 200ft roll from Marvin Denny before he passed a few years ago. I'm about 2/3 the way through it and will be looking for a suitable replacement soon as FasCal is no longer made.
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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2020, 07:49:57 AM »
I've heard of doculam laminating film being used.  Maybe the same stuff.

The stuff you mention is now called GBC laminating film.  It's thinner than FasCal and basically only good for bare foam or very small models.   It has a dry adhesive that looks milky white cold, but dries crystal-clear.  I used a lot of it when I was knocking-out foamies.

Those pink & blue woodies in the lower right corner are Dave Keats' relics with silk scarves doped-on.
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Offline phil c

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 08:15:18 AM »
Did anyone use this covering in the 70's/80's for their combat ships.   It was before Phil's covering Ibelieve.  I think the product was used for laminating, e.g. menus...It was very strong, pretty much tear resistent. 

What did you think of it?

Fascal is troublesome to work with.  It has an "aggressive" adhesive, meaning the slightest touch it sticks solid.  Almost requires two people to manage, although I'm sure some folks have figured out how to do it alone.

I tried the GBC film.  A waste.  It goes on just fine, but it is soft, floppy, and stretchy so it adds little stiffness to a wing.

Good luck getting ahold of good stuff.
phil Cartier

Offline Lane Puckett

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2020, 07:49:09 AM »
FasCal was the original manufacture name back in the 70's.  That company sold to Avery who was making it for awhile.  That sold eventually to Ritrama who is making it today.  You want 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate.

You can get it with paper backing or a clear plastic backing.  If you have to have the paper backed stuff it is about double the cost as I recall.  As a bonus instead of throwing out the 1.2 mil clear plastic backing it works very nicely if you are vacuum bagging stuff.

The stuff does have an aggressive adhesive but you already know that from working with it 'back in the day'.

Here is a supplier for Ritrama and their price today for a 750 foot roll is $355 which is the clear plastic backed 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate film.   This is the front door price add shipping to get it to you.

Ritrama Distributor:
Midwest Sign & Screen Supply, Hayward, CA. Phone: (510) 732-5800 or (800) 824-2468

Ritrama 3-7146 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate - 27" X 750' - Gloss Clear
MW Part # RIT3714627750
6/1/2020 price is $355 a roll


Ritrama

Part # 3-7146 1 mil polyester OL
You can get it in various roll widths and lengths but the supplier above only has it in the 750 foot version
1 master 54” slit to:
2 rolls 27” x 500’
2 rolls 27” x 250’
1 roll 27” x 750’

Attached is the Ritrama tech sheet



Online mike londke

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 05:34:11 PM »
FasCal was the original manufacture name back in the 70's.  That company sold to Avery who was making it for awhile.  That sold eventually to Ritrama who is making it today.  You want 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate.

You can get it with paper backing or a clear plastic backing.  If you have to have the paper backed stuff it is about double the cost as I recall.  As a bonus instead of throwing out the 1.2 mil clear plastic backing it works very nicely if you are vacuum bagging stuff.

The stuff does have an aggressive adhesive but you already know that from working with it 'back in the day'.

Here is a supplier for Ritrama and their price today for a 750 foot roll is $355 which is the clear plastic backed 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate film.   This is the front door price add shipping to get it to you.

Ritrama Distributor:
Midwest Sign & Screen Supply, Hayward, CA. Phone: (510) 732-5800 or (800) 824-2468

Ritrama 3-7146 1 Mil Polyester Overlaminate - 27" X 750' - Gloss Clear
MW Part # RIT3714627750
6/1/2020 price is $355 a roll


Ritrama

Part # 3-7146 1 mil polyester OL
You can get it in various roll widths and lengths but the supplier above only has it in the 750 foot version
1 master 54” slit to:
2 rolls 27” x 500’
2 rolls 27” x 250’
1 roll 27” x 750’

Attached is the Ritrama tech sheet
Man..thanks so much Lane. I was killing myself doing internet searches to find a replacement. I'll be biting the bullet and getting the lifetime supply I guess.  #^ #^
AMA 48913  USPA D-19580  NRA Life Member  "Don't let the planet sneak up on you"

Offline Lane Puckett

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 10:41:13 PM »
Mike,  Ping me offline via FB messenger and I'll get you a name and contact number at Ritrama.  They should have some answers on smaller rolls you can get.  Just know they have a $150 minimum anyway.  Or find someone that wants to split an order and get the 250 foot rolls.

Online mike londke

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2020, 08:42:36 AM »
Mike,  Ping me offline via FB messenger and I'll get you a name and contact number at Ritrama.  They should have some answers on smaller rolls you can get.  Just know they have a $150 minimum anyway.  Or find someone that wants to split an order and get the 250 foot rolls.
I will.
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Offline Reptoid

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 02:20:44 PM »
For those who don't know or haven't tried anything else. Fas-Cal is great for covering solid foam or sheeted surfaces and small emergency patches. It is not very good for open bay structures. Too soft and will sag. It has tenacious adhesive qualities and can be used to cover decals or seams as it is very fuel proof. It can also be sanded with very fine grit and painted. If you want to cover open structure like nostalgia combat or F2D models you want to get some Lavsan (http://aerohobby.ca/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=17&zenid=mmqj0udnto2fm5l8c6gc8c6001). It is what the Ukrainian F2D models are covered with. It is extremely strong with very little sag over open structure. The drawback is: you have to use your own adhesive. We use thinned out contact cement. Only the kind in the little brown bottle with applicator brush (home depot). It can only be thinned properly with MEK. Thin to almost water viscosity then paint on airframe and 1/4" wide at all seams/edges. Wait 10-20 minutes and apply carefully. Let dry for several hours before shrinking.
Regards,
       Don
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Online Fredvon4

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2020, 09:48:30 AM »
sold out.....Lavsan
sold out ....SLC

Research Bob Mears in combat area....his use of shrink stuff and E=bay suppliers is worth the time
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Offline Reptoid

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Regards,
       Don
       AMA # 3882

Offline GEORGE CONNORS

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2020, 10:16:50 AM »


Sneaker with fas cal....completed mid 1970's
george connors

Offline GEORGE CONNORS

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2020, 10:19:21 AM »

Covering is just as tight today as it was then.  No sag!  Not soft!  No wrinkles!

A great covering for combat open frame planes.

This one is ready to go with a g21 35.
GC
!
george connors

Offline dave siegler

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Offline Dave Edwards

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2020, 05:58:19 PM »
Good find, this material spec seems right, 1mil thick, adhesive backed with paper liner, PET material. Lavasil is a generic name used in EU for PET which is polyester film.

Cant tell from their site who the film manufacturer is. From the home page description, Kapco is a "film coater" so they probably buy the raw film from a bulk supplier like DuPont Teijin or similar. 

In my experience with films, the only way to know how good it will be is to get a sample large enough to do a wing. Could always give them a call and see if they have samples. I would spend the $150 if I knew it was the right stuff but I have gone wrong with a number of film purchases in the past.

From an earlier post:

The EU F2D suppliers call the covering Lavasil which appears to be a generic term to describe PET films. Here in the US the term Mylar is generically used but it is actually a trademark of Dupont. The DuPont family of films is called Teijin and is available in the us, a good site for info is Tektra: https://www.tekra.com/products/films/polyester-films/polyester-pet
"DuPont Teijin Films™ (DTF) are recognized around the world for their market leadership and product innovation since it first manufactured polyester film in the U.S. (1952). The PET brand names Melinex®, Mylar®, Teijin® Tetoron® and Teonex® PEN brand films have become benchmarks for the industry. "

Here is link to a place that will sell reasonable qty of these materials for about $1.25 per foot (1 mil, 36 in wide) with no adhesive
http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/categories-application-specific-fda-approved-films/mylar-polyester-pet-film

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2020, 06:23:35 PM »
FWIW, Mcmaster Carr sells  1 mil mylar (PET)

https://www.mcmaster.com/polyester-%28pet%29/clarity~clear/thickness~0-001inches/

Back when we could buy the "real deal" it was type D mylar that was the correct one.
Last time I bought some (> 10 years ago) it was from "GE polymer shapes", but they no longer list PET in clear.

As far as laminating films, there are a ton of different types.
 I bought some 1.2mil PET based that so far has worked quite well on F2D model repairs.

https://www.gvdirect.com/performance-pet-gs-agx-gloss-3-core/

It is sort of translucent, but as soon as the heat hits it for shrinking it goes completely clear.

I originally ordered the smallest size, 16.75” x 1,000’.
They were out so they sold me an odd width "short roll",18.75” x 3,500’ for the same price :)

That should last me a while !
MAAC 8177

Offline Reptoid

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2020, 10:23:28 PM »
In my experience Lavsan is superior in strength. It does not have any adhesive and is crystal clear as it comes off the roll
Regards,
       Don
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Offline Michael Alurac

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2020, 10:42:26 PM »
This has a paper lining and fairly easy to work with.

Avery® Anti-Graffiti Laminating Film
Product Features:
1 mil
54" x 150' Roll
High gloss laminating film
Clear solvent based adhesive
 Sign Mart Orange, CA Price:$701.99

Or Vandal Guard™ Anti-Graffiti Laminate with a poly liner. This stuff is hard to work with but with a bit of practice, you can make it work.
Product Features:
Vandal Guard™ Anti-Graffiti / Dry Erase Laminate
1 mil
High gloss finish
Permanent acrylic adhesive
Poly Liner (Prevents "Orange Peel")
36" x 100'
Sign Mart Price:$185.99

Offline phil c

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2020, 06:17:12 PM »
You can also check with office supply stores.  Many of them have laminating machines and some outlets stock 1.2mil to 1.5 mill, but usually 3mil or 3.5 mil- that is a bit heavy although VERY strong.  If you ask they may sell you the used up roll.  The machine always leaves 1/4in or so on the feed roll- several hundred feet.
phil Cartier

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Re: FAS CAL COVERING........BACK IN THE DAY..
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2020, 11:41:11 AM »
How do you put on covering with contact cement? Sounds like a one shot deal.


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