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Author Topic: Engine ID and age  (Read 2137 times)

Offline David Shad

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Engine ID and age
« on: April 02, 2009, 04:16:07 PM »
Our recent swap shop purchase landed me this little Nelson.  This is my first Nelson so I am unfamiliar with what
they have produced over the years.  It looks like a .15 but I have no idea when it might have been made nor it's
original use...Like speed or combat...Whatever it was I will use it on a c/l plane of some sort.  What I want to
know is...does it need a pipe?..or just straight. Anyone care to enlighten?
Big Dave AMA 80235

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 06:58:44 PM »
It's a Nelson FIRE (front intake rear exhaust).  I have a couple of these and they were not piped engines.

The original application was Combat (F2D) but a bunch of rules changes did them in.  They're still good for Rat Racing, Goodyear, Clown Racing, and 15 Profile Carrier.

These engines could easily turn 30,000 RPM or better and still last forever.  That's compared to 24,000 and short life on the engines they replaced.  The original price was $175 and a bargin considering the performance.
Paul Smith

Offline David Shad

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 08:49:04 PM »
Thanks Paul....just so happens I have a .15 carrier project on the bench...what would you suggest for nitro/oil content to make this
little jewel purr?  I also have a Perky in kit form still and that sounds like a match too.  I'll have to tinker around to fit a carb but that
shouldn't be too hard.  If you get a wild hair to let one of your .15's go let me know.  Looks like I have two planes and only one engine. 
Sounds like the 60's again when I had to swap engines around to fly what I had.  Thanks for the response.
Big Dave AMA 80235

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 08:51:05 PM »
To convert it for 15 Profile Carrier, just take any old Nelson venturi and an OS carb from an engine converted CL use.  Drill out the venturi so the carb fits and glue it in with your favorite high temp epoxy.

I think a .160" throat is about all you can have get reliable acceleration and throttle response. 

The Nelson will run just fine on anything from 10% to 50% nitro, and 20% oil is plenty.  There is a 70 MPH speed limit 15 Profile, so you probably won't need much nitro to hit it.   We ran our Nelsons for 4 minutes at a crack on 40% nitro until the FAI involked the 10% rule.  Didn't hurt 'em a bit.  The high speed run in carrier takes less than 25 seconds.  There's no way you can abuse a Nelson in 25 seconds.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 07:05:52 AM by Paul Smith »
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 11:18:32 PM »
Nelsons are why the FAI invoked the 10% rule.  It was fun while it lasted.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Greg McCoy

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 09:25:26 PM »
Nelsons are why the FAI invoked the 10% rule.  It was fun while it lasted.

A Nelson running as it was designed, how does it compare to the modern F2D with the FAI restrictions....?
AMA 77370

Offline eric conley

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2009, 08:27:13 AM »
     I purchased a Nelson .15 from Henry around 5 years ago with side exhaust. At the time I was running a RJL Conquest in my .15 carrier planes. I was making the .70mph OK but was concerned with how long the Conquest would last (especially the lower end of the connecting rod) and as they had the same mounting dimensions and knowing the longevity of the Nelson it was my choice.
     After doing some testing with the props (APC 7/4) fuel (SIG 10%) these are the numbers.
          RJL Conquest turned 19.5 to 19.7k
          Nelson .15 turned 22.3 to 22.8k
     On the conquest I used the stock carbureter that came with it which looked like a Perry (but I don't think it was) and on the Nelson I used a Perry # 2400 that had the ID shimmed down to .220 and the OD filed down to .500. The Nelson came with a beautiful little carburetter that had a ID of .295 (it had a large spray bar) but as I have always been fond of the Perry's and the supplied carburetor (with the Nelson) had such a large ID I used the Perry.
     So far I have not used the Nelson in a carrier plane because I got a couple of MVVS reverse rotaion engines at about the same time so am using one of them on my current .15 carrier planes. The MVVS "just makes it into the very low 70s" so some day I will probably build a plane for the Nelson. That Nelson is so pretty I just like to get it out and look at it sometimes and that is only surpassed when I take it out and run it, man it sounds so great.
     Another thing I have found with my Nelson engines is that they run faster and faster over the years. When I started running the heavy case Nelson .36 in profile back in the mid 90s I was turning the HS portion of the flight in the mid 20s and now with the same engine that has never been touched since new it is turning as fast as the high 17s and almost always in the very low 18s. This is done with 10%fuel and the ultra thrust muffler with a APC 9/6 prop. I cant say enough good things about the Nelson engines I use. eric

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2009, 02:05:14 PM »
A Nelson running as it was designed, how does it compare to the modern F2D with the FAI restrictions....?

I have several modern F2D Vikos with Fora 2008's.  I also have some healthy old Nelsons.

I put together a Nelson-powered Viko test plane to (effectively) answer your question.

With an "over 4MM" ventrui, no muffler, and F2D fuel,  the Nelson still didn't outrun the "FAI-legal" Fora.  I think that with higher nitro (like 40% in the old days) the Nelson could be pushed ahead of a Fora, but I don't plan to test the theory.

In 1985, my (Nelson-powered) planes, on unlimited nitro,  were faster than current equipment, but they were also a bit smaller.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 05:05:19 AM by Paul Smith »
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 11:14:25 PM »
My rear-intake, rear-exhaust Nelsonis went about 112 mph on 40% nitro, as I remember.  They'd go even faster on crazier fuel.  He says he can't make anything to compete with the Russian engines with the current rules. 
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again

Offline Mike Greb

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2009, 12:56:24 PM »
The nelson in the picture looks like a 1/4 Midget R/C pylon motor from years ago. At the end of the events run, it had a specified venturi diameter.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2010, 07:04:35 PM »
Re reply 3 = Maybe  File or machine down the OS Carb spigot dia.

Henry might not talk to you if you take a black and decker to his engine.

Lacking a 'machine ' a fine B file counting strokes and rotating carb on flat solid surface ,
if the change is a mm or less its not difficult to maintain circularity.

Some of the OS 21 Marine carbs are high duty contraptions .

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 05:11:12 AM »
The way to put a carb on this engine is to take standard Nelson venturi and (offboard from the engine) drill it out to fit the carb.  Epoxy the carb to the drilled-out venturi (now just a sleeve) and install the carb to the engine just like a normal venturi.

This worked OK for me, on both Nelson & Cox 15's and certain Fox 36's.  If you decide to switch back to Perky speed (a good home for retired Nelsons), you can back out clean.
Paul Smith

Offline David Shad

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Re: Engine ID and age
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 09:56:08 AM »
Thanks for the responses Paul.....and all those who took the time to reply. The Nelson is now
in my new Perky that will fly in a week or two when the weather clears up.  Buz Johnson was
here for this years SMS in Perry last weekend and has suggested I come to the April Speed
event in Florida and race it...so that's the plan now.   My .15 Carrier Wildcat will get one of
my Supertigre .15's that is already equipped with a carb or an FP .15 w/carb.   
Big Dave AMA 80235


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