Author Topic: dbat plans (Read 2027 times)

Mark Scarborough · « **on:** September 15, 2008, 04:01:37 PM »

Does anyone have a set of plans for a Dbat combat ship, or something similar. My 15 Year old flew one this weekend and had a blast especially since she could hit the ground and not hurt it! She is somewhat interested in combat as well, however I think reducing her fear of breaking parts (exept for porps of course) would help her progress much faster. I was thinking of using one of my FP 25 on it since I am not set up for deisil,,
My plan is to draw them up in CAD for laser cutting parts.
thanks

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #1 on:** September 15, 2008, 08:45:57 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on September 15, 2008, 04:01:37 PM

Does anyone have a set of plans for a Dbat combat ship, or something similar. My 15 Year old flew one this weekend and had a blast especially since she could hit the ground and not hurt it! She is somewhat interested in combat as well, however I think reducing her fear of breaking parts (except for porps of course) would help her progress much faster. I was thinking of using one of my FP 25 on it since I am not set up for deisil,,
My plan is to draw them up in CAD for laser cutting parts.
thanks

No problem for the D-bat plans. Question is what type do you want? Boom style or integral tail? Mel (The Alien) has plans for a "few" plans and I have plans for a couple of them. I'm also working on Dick Mathis's Tear-A-Long in Acad. It'll be a couple of weeks before I get home to finish them though, but you're welcome to them if you want. The one Mel suggests for beginners is The Warlord- fast build and strong like ox.

Personally I use The Piranha- a little bigger, but also strong if built correctly. Mines been put in full power more than once (I lost count) and it only required repairing once, the rest of the time it's "wash the motor", start it and throw it back into the fray.
If you want and you can arrange for the plane (no motor) to get to where you are, your daughter can have my plane. If not, then we can figure something else out.
Later,
Ron
p.s. Mel is planning a day to test fly combat planes up here (Vancouver) on the 27th of this month- D-bats (both types), slow and fast. Only one day, so I"ll ask him if he can get you a digital plan. (not sure but it doesn't hurt to ask). Also a FP25 would more than likely be too much motor unless it's run sucky rich. A 19 or 20 might work better. Even a 15 should work fine (especially Since Joes TD 15 pulls his F2D plane really nicely, and not much slower ( I thought it looked faster) than a properly set up F2D.

Just One-eye · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2008, 09:39:48 PM »

When it's being run at full song, an FP 25 will haul a full-size Fast Combat plane (500-plus squares) at a lot more than 80 mph if it's not restricted with the suction venturi (running on a bladder is easily possible with the wide open unrestricted intake manifold). To get it down to 74 mph on a consistent basis, it had to run with cut-down Taipan 9-4 props (cut to 8").

Running at a really slow RPM setting, it could easily sag when subjected to sudden direction changes, resulting in lost line tension / control. Look for an FP 15, or LA 15.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2008, 10:37:53 PM »

Greeat advise on th e power plants,,thanks for that. Yeah in retrospect the 25 would be a lot for that small of a plane. Guess I was just thinking I have several of them. I will start looking for some La or oterh 15. the main purpose is to have something that will bounce. Jessica really is getting interested in learning more manuevers after this weekend but is scared of breaking airplanes, ( after two this weekend) so it was a thought that this would be a fun good way to help her be more comfortable and maybe even lead to some combat flying as she developes. Thanks to Jeff and the other guys for corrupting her,, lol,,
that being said, I dont know much about the designs, just that the Dbat was the least fragile appearing? I cant say I am to interested in learning to run a deisel, so its about the planes more than anything. jeff and the guys were going to try to set us up with an airframe but something came up so we missed each other on that.but I can build pretty quick so thats not a problem ayway. Just need a recomendation and a set of plans I guess. Ron I would appreciate it, the plane she was flying was integral tail, no boom. I think they may have been Don McKays airplanes. but like I say, willing to listen to reccomendations, strong simple and not picky for trimming would be great! I look forward to your thoughts. If Mel has a set of electronic files, Cad would be really cool then I could save some time having Pat cut parts for me.

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2008, 11:20:58 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on September 15, 2008, 10:37:53 PM

Greeat advise on th e power plants,,thanks for that. Yeah in retrospect the 25 would be a lot for that small of a plane. Guess I was just thinking I have several of them. I will start looking for some La or oterh 15. the main purpose is to have something that will bounce. Jessica really is getting interested in learning more manuevers after this weekend but is scared of breaking airplanes, ( after two this weekend) so it was a thought that this would be a fun good way to help her be more comfortable and maybe even lead to some combat flying as she developes. Thanks to Jeff and the other guys for corrupting her,, lol,,
that being said, I dont know much about the designs, just that the Dbat was the least fragile appearing? I cant say I am to interested in learning to run a deisel, so its about the planes more than anything. jeff and the guys were going to try to set us up with an airframe but something came up so we missed each other on that.but I can build pretty quick so thats not a problem ayway. Just need a recomendation and a set of plans I guess. Ron I would appreciate it, the plane she was flying was integral tail, no boom. I think they may have been Don McKays airplanes. but like I say, willing to listen to reccomendations, strong simple and not picky for trimming would be great! I look forward to your thoughts. If Mel has a set of electronic files, Cad would be really cool then I could save some time having Pat cut parts for me.

If she was flying an integral tail plane, then the Warlord would be easiest.
This is a reply I got from the Barton Model flying Club web site:
If you go the Frankston (Melbourne, Australia) CLAMF web site: http://clamf.aerosports.net.au/ and go to Magazine Articles/Vintage Combat you can view both Razor Blade plans and articles plus a dozen other Vintage Combat models. Well worth a look.

Barton Moderator Ken Dowell does a super job helping keep our local club site up to date. Thanks Ken!
_________________
John
They have some scanned plans that you can down load and trace in Acad. Modify them by ditching the spars and use a 3/4" premade leading edge. A spruce 1/4" square trailing edge reinforcement and you're done. Just ask if you go that route and any questions you have, I'll try to answer. ( The original construction is heavy and fragile on most of the models (Voodoos, Nemisis and such included))
Later,
Ron
oh yeah, a 15 would be sweet. Most of the antiques are low on wing area (most 1/2a combat planes are larger nowadays), so it would be a good match. Also GOOD to see that Jeff still spreads corruption whenever possible

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2008, 11:33:56 PM »

It was a blast to watch,, I was thinking she might be intimidated, but, I was wrong! lol, Howard must have softened her up in Mcminnville
here is a picture of the plane she was flying,, after the motor seperated company in flight,,

Just One-eye · « **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2008, 07:04:22 AM »

Having zero experience with the UK version of combat, and with diesels, I cannot offer guidance on any plans for their nostalgia classes. When it was available as a kit, a group of my CL model friends and I all built Goldberg Jr. Satan kits, covered them with some really inexpensive yard goods remnant nylon chiffon (polka dotted), and those bounced with minimal damages. That was on suction, with hard tanks, and engine runs were occasionally erratic. That plane was much of a size with the 15 combat planes of the day (28" span).

When we learned how to use pacifiers for bladders, the engine runs improved so much, we had to move upward to a larger plane (we were running Medallion 15s) or go faster than we had been going before (OK, I admit, I didn't mind high speeds at all, but two of the four in the group were very wary of higher speeds), so to keep them from dropping out, the Flite Line Demon (rekitted now by Blackhawk) became our standard, modified to improve its weak point (built up TE). We boxed in the TE with 1/16" balsa cut to fit between the ribs. Personally, I added styrofoam filler inside the TE as well, and small gussets to brace the ribs.

At the speeds a glo 15 from that time period would pull those, they weren't crashproof, but very crash resistant.

Get one here: http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/demon.html

walter weatherford · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2008, 11:03:32 AM »

Hate to butt in folks, but what is a Dbat combat model??

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2008, 11:14:57 AM »

LOL, well far as I have figured out, its old time planes with nasty stinky deisel motors on them,, I am not sure if the name refers to the dingbats that fly them, or the Deisal engines,,

Just One-eye · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2008, 11:47:30 AM »

Quote from: walter weatherford on September 16, 2008, 11:03:32 AM

Hate to butt in folks, but what is a Dbat combat model??

I have been curious about the name as well, and presumed it was an acronym for some obscure British witticism of some sort . . starting off with "diesel", of course. But most likely it's a contraction of diesel combat without the iesel and the com.

Barry Baxter has several of the period 15 size designs from the UK on his site. I think this one is the "Razor Blade" model:

http://www.controllineplans.com/frameset2.htm

If I get time, I'll poke around some more in these places:

http://www3.telus.net/dieselcombat/index.htm

http://flyinglines.org/rules.dbat.html

http://flyinglines.org/dieselmania.08.html

The photo is from Thompson's Flying Lines web site.

Leonard Rennick · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2008, 03:48:29 PM »

Unless you're really set on building something, go with an F2D ready to go plane. Make some wood motor mounts and put an FP15 on it. It will be a little nose heavy compared to an F2D motor, which will make it stable and it will really take a beating.

Leonard

Joe Yau · « **Reply #11 on:** September 16, 2008, 06:31:00 PM »

Quote from: Leonard Rennick on September 16, 2008, 03:48:29 PM

go with an F2D ready to go plane. Make some wood motor mounts and put an FP15 on it. It will be a little nose heavy compared to an F2D motor, which will make it stable and it will really take a beating.

Leonard

I agree, and they're much more fun to fly IMO.

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #12 on:** September 16, 2008, 07:55:51 PM »

Quote from: Joe Yau on September 16, 2008, 06:31:00 PM

I agree, and they're much more fun to fly IMO.

Gee Joe, haven't seen you fly one yet. Yes your F2D looks like a thrill, but not everyone can handle that kind of plane, especially starting out. Remember that the basics are first, then the thrill of speed and hyper maneuverability. Not all of us started on Nemesis(s), and of the dozen that I know personally that tried that route, only one stayed with it.

To answer the other question D-bat is just that- DIEsel combat (as in the death of glows)

Joe Yau · « **Reply #13 on:** September 16, 2008, 10:52:44 PM »

Quote from: Ron Belcourt on September 16, 2008, 07:55:51 PM

but not everyone can handle that kind of plane, especially starting out.

F2D is actually very tame in straight level flight. you could ask Mike Wilcox or Ken Burdick on that one. but as soon as you give it input.. it'll respond in that split second, and without loosing very much speed into tight turns or cornerings. But if you set it up nose heavy with a slow engine like Leonard suggested, it should be quite easy to fly with the slower speed & response. I find that any planes that has good response (not twichy like) is better then ones that don't. especially if you want to miss those lawn dart landings.

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2008, 12:28:20 AM »

Quote from: Joe Yau on September 16, 2008, 10:52:44 PM

F2D is actually very tame in straight level flight. you could ask Mike Wilcox or Ken Burdick on that one. but as soon as you give it input.. it'll respond in that split second, and without loosing very much speed into tight turns or cornerings. But if you set it up nose heavy with a slow engine like Leonard suggested, it should be quite easy to fly with the slower speed & response. I find that any planes that has good response (not twichy like) is better then ones that don't. especially if you want to miss those lawn dart landings.

We'll talk about it (again) at the field on the weekend as it doesn't pertain to the question at hand and to settle your toughts on the D-bat, you can have a go with mine. That or wait till the 27th and you can do the combat thing with Mel. Yes I agree that it's a different style of flight, but it's definitely not bad when the plane is set up correctly- just a different train of thought concerning tactics

Later,
Ron

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2008, 03:40:49 PM »

I bought a 1/2a combat trainer from Carlson Engine Imports. Foam wing, mono boom tail. About $ 20, you should give him a call. He also had some english combat wing kits, I'm sure a .15 would work fine on them.

Steve

Just One-eye · « **Reply #16 on:** September 19, 2008, 11:19:52 AM »

Poking around on Carlson's site:

http://carlsonengineimports.net/products/Kic.shtml

Two different size "Hallam" combat kits-- 32 " for .09-.10, and 37" for 15s. I am neither familiar with that design, nor does Carlson have photos. I wonder if Baxter has a plan in miniature ?

Nope. But he has several of the period birdtail or whaletail British designs, like this ("Liquidator") one:

http://www.controllineplans.com/frameset2.htm

Steven Kientz · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2008, 02:45:08 PM »

I purchased the 37" version. What struck me as odd is the lack of a spar.I believe it is a monoboom. I haven't started it yet, it's several builds from now.

Steve

Just One-eye · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:44:36 PM »

When the VooDoo was a popular kit, a lot of builders omitted the spar, and boxed in the TE so they could add rib gussets. In the inevitable crashes, the sparless ones bounced better, and were easier to repair when damaged.

Author Topic: dbat plans (Read 2027 times)

Mark Scarborough

dbat plans

Ron Belcourt

Re: dbat plans

Just One-eye

Re: dbat plans

Mark Scarborough

Re: dbat plans

Ron Belcourt

Re: dbat plans

Mark Scarborough

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Just One-eye

Re: dbat type of model

walter weatherford

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Mark Scarborough

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Just One-eye

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Leonard Rennick

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Joe Yau

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Ron Belcourt

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Joe Yau

Re: dbat plans

Ron Belcourt

Re: dbat plans

Steven Kientz

Re: dbat plans

Just One-eye

Re: dbat plans

Steven Kientz

Re: dbat plans

Just One-eye

Re: dbat plans