I have intentions of duplicating one of my Father's airplanes from 1968.  His used a T-bird kit wing (actually a T-bird 2) including the over/under leadouts.  Kit wing specs were 56" span & 610 squares, nither the RSM or Brodak kits meet that, and even Larry Richards does not list a T-bird 2.

I am trying to duplicate Dad's bird (T-bird wing original fuse & tail) as close as possible but do not want to pay "collectors" prices for an old Veco T-bird kit just to throw away everything except the wing.


HELP!!!
 

Okay, why is the RSM T-Bird II different than the origanal? Is it not authentic?

I don't think anyone is saying that the RSM Thunderbird isn't authentic.  What's being said is that the RSM Thunderbird is not the same plane as the Veco/Dumas kit version.  RSM's Thunderbird may be an authentic recreation of the 59 Nats Thunderbird, in the same way that Brodaks Nobler is the authentic recreation of the original Aldrich Nobler.  But the Brodak Nobler isn't the same as the Top Flite kitted version.  It only really matters if you want to build a specific version and can't find what you want. 

It's been several years since I compared the RSM kit to the Veco kit, so I don't remember all the exact specifics that were different.  The obvious difference is the RSM version is smaller.  They both share the same designer, name, and basic appearance.  Beyond that they're two completely different planes.  At the time I wanted to build a copy of the Veco version, and the RSM version was enough different I haven't touched the kit more then once or twice since about 1998.  It's a nice kit, but not what I was expecting.

 Dennis, I sent you an E-Mail on this subject.

  Bigiron

Clint
In retrospect, I probably used a loaded word when I said "authentic".  Of course, I meant it in the context of the Veco kit, but obviously Mr Palmer made a lot of T-Birds with variations along the way: upright engine with a turtledeck, round nose, trike gear, inverted engine, with or without differential flaps, some variations in span and area, some with over/under leadouts etc - ALL are authentic, and RSM got a design personally autographed by Mr. Palmer - pretty hard to argue with authenticity like that!

I could also see why they would shed features like the over/under leadouts - a normal set-up with a slider adjustment would be a lot more familiar to the customers.  By all accounts the RSM is a terrific kit and probably flies great - and the plans apparenetly were autographed by one of the great designers of all time.  I'm sure RSM has lots of happy customers for their T-Bird.

My Dad had a stock T-bird then the bird in the picture built around the T-Bird wing.  I remember how amazed I was at the over/under leadouts!

AS I recall the T-Bird II story, NW Skyraider's own Bob Emmett drew the plans that RSM later used to make their T-Bird II kits. Bob drew the plans to duplicate the '59 T-Bird that Bob Palmer used to win the NATS ('60?). Palmer did sign off on the plans, but I'm not sure what Emmett used to draw the plans. Maybe the original airplane? I dunno. But I do know Bob Emmett, and I am certain that he did his very best to duplicate the NATS winner.

Previously, the Brodak T-Bird has been mentioned, but that is the earlier version, usually shown with an upright engine, sometimes a 'speed cowl', but sometimes built with a "Smoothie" sorta nose. As with RSM, the push at Brodak has been to make the kit as the designer built and flew it, not as Veco or TF or Jetco (etc.) eventually kitted it. Probably a good thing, in general, tho this doesn't fit your desires real well.

You might try contacting Larry Richards and see if he might be able to help. He does Veco kit replicas that some have complained about as being so accurate that all the errors are duplicated. But, while I'm pretty sure he hasn't cut any T-Birds of any variety, he might be able to help in some way. Last offering I got from his shop was the Pow Wow kit. If you search SSW and StunthAnger for "Pow Wow", you'll find his post about missing tiplet ribs, and then be able to find his contact info...or you could send me a PM or email, as you wish.  Steve

Adding up the discussion above, there were obviously SEVERAL versions of the TBird.  The ones I can think of:

* Upright engine with bonnet cowl, around 54" span and with turtledeck
* Same as above without bonnet
* Same as above(?) only with round cowl
* A version with trike gear & wheel brake used the one time Spot Landing was included in NATs pattern (I heard of this from Rollie MacDonald)
* The 2nd version Veco(Dumas/Aero Engineering) kit with 56" span, inverted engine, bubble canopy...
* RSM kit version of the 60 NATs winner (?) which has some differences to the 2nd Veco kit
* Undoubtedly a few other variations out there!
Any that can be documented are certainly Classic era, However my goal is to duplicate the "Hustler" and thus my quest (and lots of positive responses - thanx!) for the Veco Tbird wing.

I have not checked with Larry Richards, but he only lists the upright T-bird...

Another alternative would be to contact Pat Johnston. I think he has all the various T-Bird wings in CAD and has a laser cutter. He could probably produce you a wing kit for not too expensive. I can check if you like.

Edit

OK, I checked with Pat and he can cut you ribs with a laser cutter, no problem. Has the T-Bird I on file. He could probably do a T-Bird II set, but would take a bit of work.

Contact him if you're interested. Pretty reasonable costs, too.