Author Topic: The Torino has landed (Read 3686 times)

John Miller · « **on:** January 23, 2009, 05:08:16 PM »

I posted this to the old missing Torino, Torino, Torino post, but since some who were interested may not have seen it, I'm re-posting it here.

The short kits for the Torino arrived yesterday.

They look great. Eric Rule at RSM did a great job. The cuts are super, no burning, proper wood selected for the use. Most 4-6 lb. contest wood with the heaviest being called out as light, the next, very light, and the rest 4-6 lb.

I believe I'll not have the strip ribs laser cut unless it's an option. The laser time is excessive, though the ribs look great it adds a serious additional cost to the short kit.

Instead, i think a plywood strip rib jig will be added so the builder can quickly, and accurately cut their own strip ribs.

Here's a picture of the short kit, which isn't really a short kit in the strictest sense, basically just lacking the blocks, and the leading and trailing edge pieces.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:15:33 PM »

John,
I hate to say it, but I see a major flaw in your parts.....
the color of the carpet under them is wrong, mine is a little bit lighter.
so to remedy this, just ship them right on up here
looks great John, really
this will be a cool bird!

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:32:14 PM »

Letsee, its FRIDAY night and you got a Sheeks I-Beam KIT, you don't even have to guess what your building. So you start it tonight, get it framed up and covered by tomoro night and test fly at the contest Sunday. Yup, ya got plenty of time.

Get out the Ambroid and get busy my friend!!!

John Miller · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:43:11 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on January 23, 2009, 06:32:14 PM

Letsee, its FRIDAY night and you got a Sheeks I-Beam KIT, you don't even have to guess what your building. So you start it tonight, get it framed up and covered by tomoro night and test fly at the contest Sunday. Yup, ya got plenty of time.

Get out the Ambroid and get busy my friend!!!

Dang, those were the days weren't they? I can't hardly believe we used to actually do that back in the day.

But, since I don't have a contest to go to Sunday, and no glue in the house, I'll start it tomorrow and I hope to have it ready for paint before next weekend.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2009, 11:02:09 PM »

Heck John, you have plenty of time. Let's see. It's the 24th. You have around 48 days until VSC. Best go with CA instead of Ambroid. Oh, and you'll need to work on it at lest 18 hours each day, but hey, you should make it easy.

John Miller · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:33:24 AM »

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

John Miller · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:31:57 PM »

How about a few pictures of the progress so far.

I weighed all the pieces for the short kit, first with the strip ribs still in their sheets. 13.31 oz's with the strip ribs free from the sheets, 11.66 oz's

The short kit has most of the wood needed except for the leading and trailing edge balsa, the 1/8 x 1/2 spar caps, the top and bottom blocks for the short little fuselage, and the wood for the cowl. The cost of laser cutting all the strip ribs has made me consider using a laser cut strip rib cutting jig to save on laser time.

I going to split the pictures into 2 posts so I can make the size limit.

In the pictures, you can see how I added down thrust while building the crutch. In the last picture, you can see the downthrust. The fuselage at this point weighs 3.74 oz's.

John Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:33:58 PM »

More pics

Randy Powell · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:41:38 PM »

John,

What are those? Oak mounts? Cool!

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2009, 09:32:58 PM »

So....John....are you building two at once?

Steve

John Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2009, 07:32:13 PM »

Well, here it is 14 days after the short kit arrived here and here's where I'm at.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2009, 07:34:07 PM »

John,

Well, no one can say you are dragging your feet. That's certain.

Look really good.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:15:10 PM »

JOhn,

You might still get it to VSC. Me and My "Sea Vixen' will have to wait another year.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:36:03 PM »

Come on, Johnny Boy, you have what, about 35 days? You can do it!

John Miller · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2009, 04:38:13 PM »

I probably could get it done in time for VSC, but a lot will depend on how nice I want it to be. I'm deciding what extent I want the cockpit detailing to have.

I haven't done a thing to the model today, rather, I've been concentrating on the drawing. I've found a couple of changes, or techniques that will make it easier to build accurately, or better. Originally, I had planned on only needing one sheet for the design, and a second sheet for the patterns. After all I've done today, it's going to take two sheets for the design, and one for the patterns, but some problems setting the booms on a swept back wing have been adressed, and the main gear now use gear blocks and torsional, removable gear.

Still, it would be nice to bring it to VSC... sigh......

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:49:50 PM »

John, I'm with Randy - you gotta start pulling some all-nighters!

(and the Torino is looking REALLY good)

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:25:03 PM »

yeah John,,, lets git with it,, you can have it framed the rest of the way by this weekend, that leaves you three weeks to finish it, peice of cake!
((This from the dude that has a stunter with the primer drying now for over a year! sheesh))

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:10:16 AM »

John,

Don't mess it up like I did by rushing it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:10:11 AM »

Tom,

Rushing?

John Miller · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:21:08 AM »

I've been looking at this photo of the original Torino. I need to contact Jack, as it looks like the flaps have more chord than shown on the plans. The published plans show a flap chord of 1 1/4", while the photo seems to show the chord at about 2". The original flew quite well by accounts, but narrowing the flaps may make it something different.

Edit:

After speaking with Jack, the flaps can be a little wider in chord. I measured the leading edge to flap hingeline in the photo. The plans show a 10 inch distance on this measurement. Anyway, the ratio factor is 5, when applying the factor to the flaps in the photo, I come up with something between 1 3/4" to a little over 2", depending on how accurate I'm able to measure the flap root chord in the picture.

Jack explained what happened. When he told Jim Vornholt he could have it for the Nat's, the flaps weren't made yet. He simply used 2" pre-formed trailing edge stock to make the flaps. After final shaping, he figured them to be a little less than 2" at the root.

I happen to have some 2" trailing edge stock from over 20 years ago, that seems to be pretty light, but still stiff, as it's not contest wood. Should be acceptable, and I'll do the same thing he did. I'll make the flaps out of the trailing edge stock.

Rod Claus · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:25:49 PM »

John,
You are an animal!! Keep up the effort.We'll see you at VSC one way or another.......

John Miller · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2009, 10:54:17 PM »

Well, today, Saturday, I started doping the airframe. I'm using cloth hinges, for that classic look, and it seals the hingelines automatically. I bought a lifetime supply of polyester taffeta for about $8.00.

Tomorrow, I'll apply Polyspan to the wings, and finish sikspaning the rest of the fuselage.

I weighed everything before I started doping. Everything, but the rc style tank came to 31 oz's. I hope to come in at or under 40 oz's.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:39:41 PM »

Power will be a B.40??? What's the wingy area? See yas at VSC, if things go per plans.

Steve

John Miller · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:57:11 PM »

Hi Steve, I'm looking forward to VSC, and seeing all the great folks who show up there each year.

As for the Torino, It'll be powered with the same type of engine it originally had, the venerable Fox .35. The Torino has 531 sq. inches. Like Mike and his experience with the Freedom, I figured where the leadouts needed to be, and since this design doesn't sweep back as much, they don't have to be forward of the tip. They do have to be about 1/4 inch behind the leading adge at the tip.

Today was covering day. It's now all covered, and has 2 coats of dope applied.

CYA later.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2009, 12:26:52 AM »

John,

What, no pictures? (I should talk).

John Miller · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:16:01 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on February 16, 2009, 12:26:52 AM

John,

What, no pictures? (I should talk).

Pictures? We don' need no steenking pictures.

Ok, her're a couple. The first is of the canopy forming jig I made. I used it with my heat gun, to form the canopy from a 2 liter soda bottle. The one on the jig is a practise one, but it came out good enough, that I may use it.

The second shows the Torino right after I gave it another coat of dope this morning.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2009, 11:36:29 AM »

Very slick there, John. I've always had a soft spot for twin boom planes. I built the Bewitched and variations of it probably 3 times, but never the Torino. I may need to get a short kit.

How do you prep the mold for the canopy?

John Miller · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2009, 12:36:52 PM »

I too have a wierd soft spot for twin boomers. I think it goes way back to when the Gobbleswantz won the Nat's.

The canopy molding process was so easy to do I'm suprized I took so long to finally try it out. I read about the technique years ago in some magazine. The copy of which as been long gone.

The process is so simple that even my memory was good enough.

I used some harder balsa, that I would not have used to build a plane with, to make the form. After shaping, I sanded with progressivly finer paper, ending up with 600 grit. That sucker is smooth, and ther's no other finish on the mold.

I used a stand sized to fit into a 2 liter bottle, but if I were to do it again, I would simply use another piece of wood centered and at right angle to the mold.

Slip the mold into a 2 liter bottle that the base has been cut off, and use your heat gun to shrink the plastic. It shrinks up a storm, and with a little practise, you'll be making your own canopies for special projects.

As for the Torino, I've run out of clear dope, and thinner. I'll be working on the cockpit detail while I await the arrival of more paint supplies.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:08:30 AM »

John,

Thanks. I would be afraid the the grain in the balsa, no matter how smooth, would show in the plastic. But I suspect that if the wood is hard enough, it would perhaps work fine. And is sounds as if that's the case. I remember that Al Resinger used a similar technique for his Sukhoi, but he had an aluminum mold.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:12:23 PM »

John,

I assume that you have put adjustable leadouts onto it? The reason I'm asking is that on the picture of the original it appears they are a bit far back for a swept wing....

Jim Pollock

John Miller · « **Reply #30 on:** February 18, 2009, 09:24:40 PM »

Good catch Jim. I do believe the leadouts were too far back on the original. Also, Haverlies Freedom experiences showed that they were way too far back on that one as well.

So, what to do? I found the exact MAC, then figured the CG, based on the percentage of the stab and elevator. I located this point on the MAC, and extended the lines to the center and end of the wing. This located the CG at the wingtip, right at the very forward tip. I figured a 3 degree sweep back for the leadouts, which winds up with the center of the leadouts about anb inch behind the tip.

Here's a picture of the adjustable tip.

John Miller · « **Reply #31 on:** February 24, 2009, 05:35:22 PM »

It's in silver now, watch'a think?

Matt Colan · « **Reply #32 on:** February 24, 2009, 07:28:23 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on February 24, 2009, 05:35:22 PM

It's in silver now, watch'a think?

Wow John that went fast. How many all-nighters did you do??

Looks great!!!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2009, 09:48:42 AM »

Ty,

You can bring the Tucker instead.

John,

Looks good, man. I will look forward to seeing it at the NW Regionals.

John Miller · « **Reply #34 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:43:22 PM »

Thanks guys.

No all nighters, just a few weeks of no work. Home building has tanked here, so I used the time to build.

I don't think it will be finished for this years VSC. It looks OK from a distance, but something wierd is going on with the dope on the wings.

There's some kind of wierd pattern going spanwise. I'm sanding off the silver at this time, and it's getting better, but I think I'll have to spray on some primer, and sand it off to get the wings smooth.

The fuselage, coverfed in Silkspan is fine, it's just where the Polyspan is.

Ty, bring the Knight, I want to see it.

John Miller · « **Reply #35 on:** February 26, 2009, 09:06:07 PM »

This is the point where it's a lot of help to have a CAD file for a plane. Tonight I spent some time laying out the trim and paint scheme.

Here's what I've come up with so far.

John Miller · « **Reply #36 on:** February 28, 2009, 09:50:10 PM »

I'm bummed out tonight. The Torino is painted, I set it on the couch, got distracted, and sat down on the couch, leaqned back, to hear a cracking sound.

I've removed the ebottom opf the fuse, and I'm in the process of glueing up the spar joints. The damage wasn't as bad as I first thought, but tomorrow will tell if I have to cut further into it.

Really bummed over the totally dumb move.

Here're a few pics as I trimmed it out.

The final one doesn't show the true color, what looks like black is really indigo blue.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #37 on:** February 28, 2009, 11:04:30 PM »

John,

You been hanging out in my shop? Some of the bad Karma must have rubbed off. Sorry to hear about the accident. Hope the damage isn't too bad.

John Miller · « **Reply #38 on:** March 01, 2009, 11:17:38 AM »

The Damage wasn't too bad. I finished it up this morning, and glued the bottom back on. Now some paint repairs, and I'll be back on track.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #39 on:** March 01, 2009, 01:20:23 PM »

John,

We'll look great together at the Regionals. Both with dark planes that look good in appearance judging but disappear to a smudge in the air.

John Miller · « **Reply #40 on:** March 01, 2009, 05:44:56 PM »

Yeah, that might be a prolem. I'm hoping that the yellow-gold fuselage, and wingtip, coupled with the multi-colored flares on the rudders, will be enough to highlight the profile like the Blue Angels trim scheme does.

I'll find out I'm sure, in a few weeks.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #41 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:01:24 PM »

Looks good John and am looking forward to seeing you at VSC. We may be able to have a bottle of water togather!