Author Topic: The Classic planes I really want to build. (Read 4684 times)

Bill Little · « **on:** April 24, 2007, 08:49:17 PM »

I had a *little* break today at work so I started a list of Classic planes I really want to build. Then I broke it down to the ones I REALLY want to build.... even listed engines I have to go in them.... stopped at over 25......... and I guess I was maybe a 1/4 way to the total.

I need a twelve step plan for Classic Plane addiction............

Hi, I'm Bill, and I'm a Classicaholic.............

rob biddle · « **Reply #1 on:** April 24, 2007, 09:50:49 PM »

G'day Bill,
I did a similar thing recently myself, made a list of the personal favourite models I have to build before I die.

Expecting to see maybe 10 names on the list, I gave up when the list got past 30 and don't even think about putting them in some kind of order

.

At the rate I am going I'm pretty sure I'll need to live to about 300 to get it all done.

Any way, at this time of writing I have a RSM "T bird" (LA .46) almost ready to paint and a Montgomery Models "Ramrod" (.35 MAX S) about 3/4's framed up (just need to do front top block, cockpit details and engine cowl).

Next on the list is a Brodak Nobler kit that my kids gave me for Christmas, which I think will be powered by a fresh Merco 35 I scored off e-bay about 12 months or so back.

I plan on getting this all finished this year so that the slate is fresh for a couple of serious PA planes next year.

Cheers, Rob.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2007, 09:32:56 AM »

Bill,

My list is only about 10. Depressingly, 2 of them are ones I've already built once.

Norvaldo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 25, 2007, 01:49:20 PM »

Well, i just finished one..
It is a T.bird 1 1/2.
Story is that when building the RSM T.Bird i totally messed up the wing.
So i bought a Brodak t.bird kit and used the wing. Adjusted lenght to fit the Tbird2.
So i suppose this one is Classic Illegal..

(A shark 45 is next on the classic list.)

Norvald

Bill Little · « **Reply #4 on:** April 25, 2007, 04:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 25, 2007, 09:32:56 AM

Bill,

My list is only about 10. Depressingly, 2 of them are ones I've already built once.

Hi Randy,

If I *could*, I would probably build a new USA-1 every year! I don't have to change a thing on that design since I cannot see a way to improve it.

But, I have loved scale planes since I was a little kid, and some of Al's planes really look great to me. A Sea Fury would be awesome. Aaron has a Classic Bearcat underway, and I have laser ribs for a Classic Rabe Mustang! That one is on the short list for me.

BUT, for some reason the "Ares" keeps popping into my head. it was my "most favorite" plane in the '60s. Plus, I have not built the '62 version, yet. You can see where this goes...........

Then there is Jack Sheeks FW-190, Dave Hemstraught's PT-19 (I had one in 1965) and Dave is like my "Stunt Daddy"! Then the short kits I have of the Bellanca and Shark 35, plus an I-Beam Classic that I hope to finish before fall for publication. And of course, after talking with Mr. Grondal, before his untimely passing, I have to do the AMA Special, and another T-Bird II as Mr. Palmer's WC plane, and Juhani Kari's Nakke, and another Warburton Tony, and Gabri's Master (forerunner to the Supermaster) and Sirotkin's Ilushyn, and...................

Bill Little · « **Reply #5 on:** April 25, 2007, 09:52:16 PM »

"Sure wish I could figure out Sparky's system for getting things done in a hurry! Shocked

Jim Pollock Coffee " (quote)

You just don't dilly dally!

Bill <><

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:06:29 PM »

I have NEVER built an I-beam. Could use up a lot of electrons just listing the Sheeks I-beamers I would like to have!

Norvaldo · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2007, 02:54:05 PM »

I see jack Sheeks mentioned ...
Anyone out there have a picture of a twin boomer ibeam he designed called La Donna..(Early sixties Heard someone say it was named after his wife)

Norvald

Randy Powell · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2007, 03:32:55 PM »

Bill,

A partial list of my planned (or sorta planned) projects:

1. Another USA-1 (that isn't crunched this time)
2. Colussus (definate plan - Go Walter with the kit!)
3. Bernie Ash Supersonic Stunter (natural home for an ST 60 or Magnum 53)
4. Novi II (if Dave ever does the plans)
5. Mirage II
6. Elektra X-35 (already partially cut out)
7. Talon (I actually like it more than the Formula S)
8. ?

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #9 on:** April 26, 2007, 04:15:56 PM »

Randy - you're a GENIUS!

The Talon is more interesting than the Formula S, even though the FS was (IMO) refined. With the Talon it was " Hey, I got this new shape I wanna try out" The Formula S was the ultimate destination, the Magnum Opus of the jet styled birds (that ought to trigger some responses!)

Similar thoughts regarding Jerry Worth's Electra X35 versus the later (& better) Mirage, and ultimately the Apterix

BTW, regarding my wanna be SHeeks project, I even have an Enya 35, Just like Jack used to use...

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #10 on:** April 26, 2007, 04:27:26 PM »

Im pulling for the Playboy, come on Bill did ya get that wood yet?
also would like to build a Cobra and my all time lust airplane that alas doesnt meet the "standards" for classic, but still,,,, BW Juno!!!!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2007, 08:22:01 AM »

Dennis,

Yea, there are several Jack Sheeks planes I'd like to build or build again: The Knight, Torino, Scottsman and a couple of others. Maybe a Sea Vixen.

Mark,

The Cobra is nice if you can keep it light (I didn't). I'm also a Juno fan. Loved the original paint scheme.

Shultzie · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2007, 11:12:00 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on April 26, 2007, 04:27:26 PM

Im pulling for the Playboy, come on Bill did ya get that wood yet?
also would like to build a Cobra and my all time lust airplane that alas doesnt meet the "standards" for classic, but still,,,, BW Juno!!!!

Uhhhh....Here is a photo of Roger Barrett showing us the construction (de-construction) of his beautiful looking and flying "PLAYBOY" before he sadly STUFFED IT!

Shultzie · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2007, 11:15:28 AM »

That's not very nice....here is how the model looked the night before...TOTALLY AWESOME!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2007, 02:06:33 PM »

Schultzie,

I like the crash picture because I can see Bill Simmon's Shoestring in the background. I love that plane.

Shultzie · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2007, 05:55:45 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 27, 2007, 02:06:33 PM

Schultzie,

I like the crash picture because I can see Bill Simmon's Shoestring in the background. I love that plane.

That Shoestring was one beautiful plane. Just to take a peek at perfection...lets look at that Shoestring again.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2007, 12:15:30 AM »

Hey, Shultzie,

I built one a couple of years ago. Never did get the engine to work, but the plane flew very well.

Shultzie · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2007, 09:54:36 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 28, 2007, 12:15:30 AM

Hey, Shultzie,

I built one a couple of years ago. Never did get the engine to work, but the plane flew very well.

RANDY.....RANDY!!
Again and again! Another drop-dead beautiful Shoestring! I hope that Bill has seen this beautiful model of yours? The Shoestring's cowling is truly a piece of great body sculpting!

How fortunate that you have photographed so many of your models over the years.
Thanks...keep those photos comin in....Randy and that goes for the rest of you lurking lurkers...

Dig out some more history from the past...and present. Photos do say a "kageeeelion words!"

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2007, 09:34:37 AM »

Don,

That Shoestring was a very cool plane. Shame is came to such an ignoble end. The POS engine quit <again> at the worst possible moment in the clover. I fought with the engine the entire season. Looking back, I should have just replaced it.

I hope to build another at some point. It really flew very well.

Chris McMillin · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:19:21 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 28, 2007, 12:15:30 AM

Hey, Shultzie,

I built one a couple of years ago. Never did get the engine to work, but the plane flew very well.

But... the paint scheme from Dave Morss' "Spud"? I nearly bought that airplane just to repaint it!!!
"Oh, the humanity!"
Seriously though, your model is gorgeous.
Chris...

Randy Powell · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2007, 11:30:03 AM »

Chris,

Hey, hey, hey!!! I saw the Spud Runner at Nampa airport in Idaho many years ago. I loved the paint scheme, though the dancing spuds on the tail were a bit much.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2007, 07:23:01 AM »

Well, as soon as I can get my Werwage Vulcan and Lampione Sabre finished (trim painting and clear left to do), I guess I will be strating on a USA-1 for the end of the year/next year!

Gonna use a very *unconventional* engine package in the USA-1. (at least for some it will be!)

Looking for less than 54 oz., we'll see! Should be doable if I still have some primo wood in the stacks!

Then I *think* I will do the "McHenry" A-7 Corsair II. It just BEGS to be built!

Allen Brickhaus · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2007, 01:39:21 PM »

Bill Simons told me personally that the wing in his Shoestring was not drawn correctly. He used the typical East Coast Super 35 wing for the model but a much higher aspect ratio wing, incorrect for his model, was drawn in the plans for the model in the magazine. Thus the true wing was more of the Yank, Genesis, Stunt Machine type rather than the one shown in the article. Bob Hunt can chime in here to give us the final answer to this quandry. I believe that I could use the Super 35 wing and be legal. But the plans so another wing and that could be legal also. Bob, help me here.

Allen Brickhaus

Bill Little · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2007, 03:22:58 PM »

Hi Allen,

A certain long lean I-Beamer is about to hit the board!

50+AirYears · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2007, 06:55:24 PM »

Setting in my garage, waiting to join the Veco Smoothie I built in 1968, which is still quite flyable, is a NIB Sterling S-1 Ringmaster, a NIB Super Ringmaster, a NIB Sterling Waco bipe, a NIB Sterling Stearman Bipe, and a NIB Sterling Flying Fool. They are keeping company with a NIB Midwest/Kenhi Panther and a NIB Jetco Shark 45. Kind of resting in the shade of the wing of the Smoothie is a recently finished Firebaby II from AJ Classics, using an OK Cub .049 that I had on an original Firebaby and a Firebaby Bipe sometime around 1950, and I am about ready to apply the color to an almost finished Monarch 1/2A Vitamin, that will use a Cub .074 with the attached tank.

I also have a large collection of plans I would hope to build, including plans for the original Ringmaster.

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #25 on:** May 14, 2007, 12:47:11 PM »

Hi Alan:

I can indeed clear up the Shoestring wing design mystery. It was designed around (drum roll here please...) a Skylark! Yup Ed Southwick's Skylark templates were used, and the wing was cut by Mike Stott at Foam Flite.

I actually inherited the Shoestring for a year or so when I was heavy into motorcycle racing in the late 1960s and didn't get around to building a plane one year. Bill lent me the Shoestring to practice with and I ended up flying it quite a bit. It flew extremely well considering it was pushing 52 ounces and was powered by a Fox .35! That exact plane with an Aero Tiger .36 would be killer - even more so at a lighter weight...

So, the Shoestring could be built with a Skylark airfoil and be absolutely legal for Classic. In fact, technically it would be the only version that would be legal for use in Classic as the article did not appear until the early 1970s with the "fictitious" wing!

Paul Simon (No, not the songwrite/singer...) drew and inked the plans for not only the Shoestring, but also for Bill's P-39 Aircobra and Gene Schaffer's Stunt Machine. He got the "foils" wrong for all of them! Paul also drew the plans for Bob Lampione's Sabre Jet, but I'm pretty sure he got those right, or at least close!

I know about the Stunt Machine for sure because I cut the wings for both of Gene's original Stunt Machines (Yes, there were two!) The original Stunt Machine used an airfoil that was just slightly thicker (The width of a "wide ball point pen." Where have we all heard that before...?) than a stock 1952 Nobler foil set, but longer panels and not near as much panel offset (asymmetrical stability).

One of the Stunt Machines had a bubble canopy, and to me was the better looking of the two by a mile. It didn't trim out immediately and Gene (As he was prone to do with models that didn't measure up quickly...) started a wingover and conveniently did not bother to pull out! The plane (according to several eyewitness accounts...) hit so hard on the Flushing Meadow Park tarmac that the mounts broke off with the engine still attached and the whole assembly flew trough the air and landed on Bob Lampione's brand new Sabre Jet (The third one that he built. The first one was the 1969 Nats winner and the second one was a Fox 59 powered ship built around a Shark .45 wing). Rumor has it that Bob was not amused... Wonder why!

Ahh memories...

Bob Hunt

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** May 14, 2007, 01:00:06 PM »

Hi Bob,

Can you still cut those Stunt Machine cores? In other words: do you have the templates?

Thanks
Bill <><

John Miller · « **Reply #27 on:** May 15, 2007, 02:27:18 PM »

Actually, there are at least 2 Classic designs I've yet to build from my first list. We won't talk about list number 7.

Ever since I first saw the article, way back when it first came out, I've wanted to build "Wild Bill's" "Fierce Arrow". It's just sooo big and impressive looking. It doesn't really matter if it winds up being a little stunt challenged, I want one.

I've also admired the aggressive look of twin boomers. I remember when the "Gobbleswanze" won big at the Nat's. I must have worn the ink off the magazine issue that carried the construction article. Others like the La Donna, and the Carousel came along, but the one that's held onto my heart all these years is the Torino. It's funny too, 'cause you never see one at the contests, but by all reports I've heard of, it was a good flying plane. I have the plans for this one. It'll be my construction project for next VSC. Imagine one powered by an Aero tiger 36? Sweeeeet.

John Miller

Shultzie · « **Reply #28 on:** May 15, 2007, 05:34:27 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on May 15, 2007, 02:27:18 PM

Actually, there are at least 2 Classic designs I've yet to build from my first list. We won't talk about list number 7.

Ever since I first saw the article, way back when it first came out, I've wanted to build "Wild Bill's" "Fierce Arrow". It's just sooo big and impressive looking. It doesn't really matter if it winds up being a little stunt challenged, I want one.

I've also admired the aggressive look of twin boomers. I remember when the "Gobbleswanze" won big at the Nat's. I must have worn the ink off the magazine issue that carried the construction article. Others like the La Donna, and the Carousel came along, but the one that's held onto my heart all these years is the Torino. It's funny too, 'cause you never see one at the contests, but by all reports I've heard of, it was a good flying plane. I have the plans for this one. It'll be my construction project for next VSC. Imagine one powered by an Aero tiger 36? Sweeeeet.

John Miller

Hi John...
As you know that TORINO was the plane that Jim Vornholt flew at the 1968 nats. Jim was sittin next to me in the line up and we talked about how he took that Tornino of Jack's that he had been flying in the "clear-dope" stage and both Jim and Jack...went on a marathon painting stage and finished that model of Jack Sheeks so he could have something to fly at the 68 nats (HUMM? TALK ABOUT THE ULTIMATE READY-TO-FLY...TORINO.(named after Jim Vornholt's new car) It was so new...that morn. setting on that hot tarmac at Oltha, we could actually smell the clear topcoat "gassing off" almost like it had just been sprayed only 5 minutes ago.

Jim flew extremely well with Jacks airplane and carried the top score of the day for a while...but ended up in 6th place in that circle by the end of the day...as some of the Navy scores and wind took its tole.
Still that TORINO OF JIM VORNHOLT'S was sooo impressive in the air but it was the flying ability of Jim that stole the show. After I watched and heard how beautifully that new Enya .35 sounded and ran with that muffled engine that I just wanted run right out and buy one that same day. Beautifully lookin and running engin.

That model had 520 sq. inches and weighted around 48 or 50 ounces and wasn't really a LIGHT WEIGHT but it flew perfectly.
Whatever. After seeing that model...I came soooooooo close to building one of these and I wonder if one reason it turned so smoothly and predictable in that wind....
THOSE TWIN BOOMS really seemed like a great idea!!...by adding NEEDED STIFFNESS, BETTER BRACING,ALL IN THE RIGHT PLACES..AND IMPROVED THE OVER ALL PERFORMACE, not only on the wing but also the stab and elevator sections?
I thought Jim Vornholt flew better than his score reflected...( after some buzzing lips..BUILDER OF THE MODEL RULE WAS APPROVED) after some rather interesting input at the viewing table the night before.

Jim's beautifull Aero Gloss finish was awesome under those hanger lights, even though the model was not built by Jim....Jim's finish ruled the decision to honor the BOM rule anyhoo. Who could deny such a combination effort.
Interesting huh?
I beamers really gie off the sparkling effects of a highly finished paint job. Also a VERY ATTRACTIVE PAINT COLOR AND DESIGN scheme that accented that unique model so beautifully.

John Miller · « **Reply #29 on:** May 16, 2007, 03:09:32 PM »

Yea Shultzie, That's about the same story Jack Sheeks told me. Aparently Jim wrecked his Nat's plane a week or so before the Nat's. He went over to Jacks house and noticed the unfinished Torino hanging on the wall. He finished it, took it to the Nat's and almost won with it. Jacks version has Jim losing appearance points and dropping down to 6th. place.

No matter what, I feel that the Torino is one of the best, and prettiest twin boomers ever. Most give the honor to the La Donna, also a Sheeks design, but, in my eye, the Donna doesn't have the lean mean aggressive stance of the Torino. It uses very little wood in it's construction. It should build up light. with proper power, and a good pilot, I believe it can be a winner.

Thanks for posting the pictures, I would really love to get a copy of the article. Do you happen to have it scanned in?

Best wishes,

John Miller

Bill Little · « **Reply #30 on:** May 16, 2007, 03:29:57 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on May 15, 2007, 02:27:18 PM

Actually, there are at least 2 Classic designs I've yet to build from my first list. We won't talk about list number 7.

Ever since I first saw the article, way back when it first came out, I've wanted to build "Wild Bill's" "Fierce Arrow". It's just sooo big and impressive looking. It doesn't really matter if it winds up being a little stunt challenged, I want one.

I've also admired the aggressive look of twin boomers. I remember when the "Gobbleswanze" won big at the Nat's. I must have worn the ink off the magazine issue that carried the construction article. Others like the La Donna, and the Carousel came along, but the one that's held onto my heart all these years is the Torino. It's funny too, 'cause you never see one at the contests, but by all reports I've heard of, it was a good flying plane. I have the plans for this one. It'll be my construction project for next VSC. Imagine one powered by an Aero tiger 36? Sweeeeet.

John Miller

Hi John,

Can't wait to see the "Torino"! You will do it justice, I am sure.

As to the Fierce Arrow, Sir Charles of Reeves has a beaauuutttiiful one! He uses a 40FP in his, and it really flies better than I would have thought after all I had heard of the "Arrow".

I built the FA 400, but I don't *think* I will get into the BIG one! hahaha

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #31 on:** May 17, 2007, 03:21:29 AM »

Although, the "Fierce Arrow", has never been one of my favorite looking airplanes and I feel that the later "Arrow" was better looking, I saw a picture of a "Fierce Arrow" that Steve Wooley had, that was really dressed up with wheel pants. It looked good!

One thing for sure, it is a unique airplane, and it is good to see some flying.

Shultzie · « **Reply #32 on:** May 17, 2007, 11:39:09 AM »

Quote from: John Miller on May 16, 2007, 03:09:32 PM

Yea Shultzie, That's about the same story Jack sheeks told me. Aparently Jim wrecked his Nat's plane a week or so before the Nat's. He went over to Jacks house and noticed the unfinished Torino hanging on the wall. He finished it, took it to the Nat's and almost won with it. Jacks version has Jim losing appearance points and dropping down to 6th. place.

No matter what, I feel that the Torino is one of the best, and prettiest twin boomers ever. Most give the honor to the La Donna, also a Sheeks design, but, in my eye, the Donna doesn't have the lean mean aggressive stance of the Torino. It uses very little wood in it's construction. It should build up light. with proper power, and a good pilot, I believe it can be a winner.

Thanks for posting the pictures, I would really love to get a copy of the article. Do you happen to have it scanned in?

Best wishes,

John Miller

John...I will send you an E mail and the article. I can ASSURE YOU THAT BEAUTIFUL TORINO OF JIM N' JACKS was one beautiful flying machine in the hand of Jim Vornieman! What a gifted flyer who I (and many others) thought flew the best flight of that day with that beautifully designed and flying stunning twin boomin stunter.

John Miller · « **Reply #33 on:** May 17, 2007, 12:24:44 PM »

I'm making a seperate post on the Torino, I'm really starting to get "Pumped Up" over this design. Check out the Torino post.

John "Torino man" Miller

Bill Little · « **Reply #34 on:** May 17, 2007, 12:59:49 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on May 17, 2007, 12:24:44 PM

I'm making a seperate post on the Torino, I'm really starting to get "Pumped Up" over this design. Check out the Torino post.

John "Torino man" Miller

Hi John, you DA (Torino) MAN! I can't wait to see it.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #35 on:** May 17, 2007, 04:29:14 PM »

I built a Torino while in high school. It was a great plane from my memory. I also really liked and built the Bewitched. Too bad that doesn't qualify for classic. It was what, 1972-73? Something like that.

The other twin boomer I'd like to build is the Sea Vixen. I have the original magazine somewhere and spent a lot of time looking at that one too.

Jack Sheeks designs, all.