Well,
I deliberated about posting any pictures of the progress on the Avenger, In the long run I figured I might make a lesson from my trials.
I have been working rather feverishly to get her done for theREgionals next weekend. It was going well. I did find some issues during painting that were troublesome but as Randy says all the time, and I agree, a paint job is never done just abandoned so I elected to live with them, the end purpose still being served I felt.
Saturday Wed night last week, and Thursday after work I got the sealer coat on and the base colors. I was pretty happy with the effect I dreamed up, subtle, classy and still unique. so I spent friday after work getting my vinyl cutter up and running. Turns out there are no drivers available for windows Vista to run my cutter so I had to pull out the old desktop machineand hook it back up. long story short I got the cutter working with a few foibles along the way. Lesson learned, when preparing files for Pat to laser cut, they need to be polylines,, if you dont, then the laser tries to cut the line several times over,, not good. the vinyl cutter is the opposite, it cuts the lines multiple times if it IS a polyline,, sigh. Anyway , I got around that and got all my masks cut in Gerber mask ready to spray. i went over to the shop and proceded to spray the color. It all appeared to go well. I wasnt ultimatly thrilled with the one color I picked in the trim but the clear would have made it kick better so it was going to be ok. That is until I pulled the mask from the second wing,, the first one was fine, came up clean and looked pretty good. The second one pulled all the color off the sealar coat! Nothing different, nothing changed it just happened. I still have not decided what actually happened to cause this. I always lecture about using products that are designed to work together, not mixing brands, thinners, material types and such not. The reason I am so adamant about this is that I have used the CORRECT materials and had issues,, so to mix things that are not intended to work together is only compounding an issue already. As you can see, I know personally what can happen even when using the correct materials.
as a way of background, the wing is covered in polyspan and butyrate. After covering, I had concerns about the torsional rigidity of the wing so rather than strip it, I elected to cover over that with silkspan. ultimatly, this added about 2.5 ounces to the finish weight but I figured I had the best of both worlds, the puncture resistance of the polyspan, and the stability of the silkspan so it was worth it. After sanding that, and insureing it was plenty dry, I sprayed a coat of catalysed sealer over the dope to prevent the solvents from swelling the laquer. This again is a security step to insure no interaction between the dope and the top coats. Sealer is intended for exactly that purpose, to prevent undercoat swelling and promote adhesion,, hmmmm. then the top coats were all PPG base coat sprayed at the reccomended mixtures and application times. The model was cleaned between coats, and between mask and spray operations. Still, the issue arose. I have not really determined what happened and I am not sure I will. The strangest part is that it appears to only be on one wing. So bottom line, I have painted cars since about 1981, and despite doing everything right, s**t still happens. hence, knowing that when everythign is apparantly right, things go wrong, why would you even consider shortcutting things and adding another layer of possible problems to the process.
As Pat always tells me,, ( usually after a crash lol) take a bad thing and use it for an oppurtunity. So, this will allow me to go back and correct the little issues that I discovered, and I am contemplating stripping the covering from the wing and just using silkspan to bring it back up again. this will save me at least the 2 and a half ounces I gained by double covering.
so, there, It happens to all of us,, even the "proffesionals" My hope is that you will use this as a lesson to realize, dont add that layer of chance to the finishing process, its challanging enough without it!

Thanks Randy, sad to say, but I figured you could relate to the joy of doing it right and having something happen,
the base is a special concoction of gold ,, then my magic texture technique with a slightly darker gold, then House of Color Pagan gold Candy over that

OOPS!

Appears that your mask on the OB wing needed a bit more de-tacking.  Watch some of Windy's videos and he points out that de-tacking masks are extremely important in preventing pull-ups.  It is repairable though, it's really going to be a nice looker too!

Jim Pollock   

Hmmm, considering the reference to womens undergarmets,, the stripping comment may be more appropriate than first imagined

the affect was created by first laying down the base gold,,, ( as an educational note, anytime you deal with womens undergarmets, GOLD is an appropriate starting place,,,) then I stretched a pair of fishnet stockings over the wing insuring that the seams were straight up the back of the calves,, uh,, oh wait,,
so yeah anyway,
a pair of fishnets was placed delicatly over the gold digger base,, and then a fresh mixture of the gold with a substantial dollop of red rouge pearl was added and sprayed through the stockings at a fairly soft airpressure. After things dried off enough I carefully slid the stockings off,, and proceeded to apply a generous portion of Pagan Gold Candy,,,,, hence you get what you see there.
ok so now my secret is out,, just dont tell my girlfriend, she may wonder where the stockings came from!

Mark,

Glad you found the problem. Worse thing is to have something like that happen and have no idea why. Tough to avoid a problem you can't diagnose.

Well, in the interest of being SURE, I will likely commit to doing a complete strip on the wings and sand the fuse down to the primer. I have a reason to strip the wings anyway. In the process of covereing them I started with Poly span, and discovered that with this psuedo I beam wing, it did not lend enough torsional ( twisting) rigidity. So I then covered it with silkspan. In this process I added over two ounces . The polyspan was already doped ready to sand, so, i am thinking about stripping and just using the silkspan, OR covering with poly span for the puncture resistance, but not fully doping it, just one coat, then silkspan over that for strenght, I think I can shave two ounces easily off the finish weight so It is probably worth it. The decision wont be made till after the regionals. Then I will do the two inch tape adhesion test on the rest of the airframe to check adhesion. If its good then I will just sand the fuse , flaps and tail, down to the primer, or sealer depending. I will also take advantage of this to correct a few issues I uncovered in the process of painting. The base colors will be the same, though I am not in love with my graphic so that will likely change.
It just goes to show, I have 25 years painting and you still find stuff that you can do wrong without even knowing it!

jeez Shultzie, I was just starting to feel the creative juices flowing and you yank some of the pictures off! hows a guy supposed to get inspired?

Glad you found the problem Mark.  One question, how do you get that lace effect like that? I have no clue.

A long time ago,at one of the St Louis Team trials, Jim Fasimpauer (spelling?) had an airplane that used the spray through lace effect. Looked almost like snake skin.. it looked neat on his airplane.

It has to be Daytona, and probably during the annual event - BCR. Sport bikes and lots of crashes are normal then. If it were Bike Week, the mix of people would have a lot more grey haired guys with baggers and 'Glides, and the wife who stumbled on the poor guy viewing the picture would have got an even bigger eyeful.
 Bike week tends to make the womens tops blow up to their shoulders, you can see them doggedly trying to pull them back down to cover the flesh exposed by the harsh Florida weather! 

Back to the paint job- we used to get a similar effect to the fish net pattern by spraying through lace from the fabric store. This was up north on Snowmoble hoods as a teenager. We thought we were the Kings of Custom Paint!

Important notice!! Do not use you mother / wife's lace doillies or table runners for paint masks- I still wear the scars!

Well I can no longer procrastinate,
despite my best efforts to forstall the inevitable, I have pulled the Avenger back off its hanger, and am in process of sanding off all the color to start over. As I progress , I can feel the love starting in again.
My Pylon racers may have to take a back seat,,,

oh, and in case you were wondering, basecoat ( auto colors) sands like crap! sigh,, I may end up resorting to acetone, or thinner to strip the color off. Which would not be to bad since I have catalysed sealer under the color coats. Still have a lot of sanding though even at that,,

Geeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... you 'n Randy, the PROFESSIONALS are ALWAYS having problems!  What is it with youse guys???

Just funnin' with y'all, I love you both..... (but you can't have my ice tea........)

Now, get that model painted and be done with it!       

Big Bear

Geeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... you 'n Randy, the PROFESSIONALS are ALWAYS having problems!  What is it with youse guys???

Just funnin' with y'all, I love you both..... (but you can't have my ice tea........)

Now, get that model painted and be done with it!       

Big Bear

Now that you mention it, makes me think of these reality shows for cars, motorcycles, boats and even home improvements.  Have to interject some problems to keep it interesting.

Mongo,

Well, a great example is the plane I'm doing right now. I ran into a minor problem with adhesion, but I sort of saw it coming. Anytime you try to paint when the temp is under 60 degrees (or in my case 50 degrees) and the humidity is hovering near 85%, you're going to have issues. You try to do the things you have in the past that mitigate them (retarder, reducer levels, de-humidifying the air line and several other tricks), but you still stand a good chance of having a problem. It's a lot easier when it's 70 degrees and under 25% humidity (better known as heaven paint conditions). I shot pearlized candy colors and anytime you put a lot of pearl in something, you are likely to promote adhesion problems. Couple that with the humidity level and, well, you have to be prepared. It came out OK. Not a 20 pointer, but OK. I've so far had less problems with this finish than any since I built the Shoestring (that finish went on very easily).

It's part of the gig. You try to prepare for conditions and materials as best you can. Experimentation can be a killer (probably why most guys just do what they know works) and lastly, it's just that guys like Mark and I tell you about it. Most guys keep it to themselves. 

Doc,
it is nice, but, it certainly only helps, its not the be all end all, as you note, without proper technique, you can have ALL the toys and it will still go south on you sometimes.

If you have an Impact, Trivial Pursuit, or T-rex, it doesnt matter if you dont understand how to adjust and wiggle the handle at the right times, you still aint gonna beat the big boys.

That's great, Mark. I look forward to the repainted version with the trim colors we talked about. It will be awesome!

Mark,

What was that base color you had before the incident occurred???  I think it is a fantastic shade of yellow/gold!!!

Matt,
It was a gold base, custom mixed pearls. Then it had another custom mixed pearl concoction sprayed through the fishnets, then it was Aztec Gold Candy layered on top of it.
I have rethought the process, and now think I can accomplish the same thing with many less coats of color. Same effect though in the long run.

Jim,
yeah thanks for THAT encouragement, lol, Mine has been hanging over the bench since May when I painted it the first time. Fortunately, I had not sprayed the catalyzed clear so I was able to wash the affected color toners off with thinner and not compromise the previous work.
the sanding I am doing now is to eliminate as much of the sealer coat as I can comfortably, but its also paying the dividend of taking care of the little issues that would have bugged me anyway. Like Pat says, every issue is an opportunity to learn and do better next time,,

If anyone is interested in what I am refering to when I speak of guide coating, I can post some pictures. Not sure if its common or not. Its how we do it when we block a car for paint.

Mark,

Are we having fun yet?

I received a couple of E mails...that I offended some of our more "anal retentive" grunts  S?PH^^
Especially from one of the grunts wife who caught him...laughin and gawkin' at those bikin'babes.
May I mention that our grunt-gawker also mentioned that he has a bike that is very very similar to the bike in the foreground.

MAY THE GODS OF CREATIVE PAINTDOME'  BE WITH YOU...MY BELOVED BROTHA' MARK!
HAVE A SAFE N' SANE TRAVEL TRIP...AND REMEMBER TO SET THAT CRUZE-CONTROL on a safe n' sane setting and if you FEEL THE NEED FOR SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! Make certain that you always follow a faster car...that can be your SPEED TRAP NABBIT-RABBIT!

Traffic Felon Donnie
(got a speeding ticket on the way back from Cannon Beach a few weeks ago.)

And Steve thinks i'm Sick!@@##??

Uh the outboard wing is completely resanded,, the flaps and elevators are sanded, the fuse is partially sanded, and now I am in Boise for the weekend to attend Pats wedding,,
progress to continue next week,,

Man, I wish I could have made it to Pat's wedding. He is such a cool guy. My thoughts are with him.

Shultzie,

Come on, you know you want another Avenger. Just say it. I'm sure Mark would front you plans and Pat could laser cut you some parts.

How about an electric powered Avenger Mark? I figured you be up for that considering all the special time you have spent with your Avenger!

Hey, quit messing around and get back to sanding.