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Author Topic: T-38 Talon  (Read 1722 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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T-38 Talon
« on: July 11, 2019, 01:26:10 PM »
Can anybody tell me if the T38 Talon by Dave Rees is a classic legal model? The plans arenít dated.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2019, 02:19:14 PM »
Outerzone sez 1974: https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=4828.

Looks like it'd make a nice 'lectric.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 02:41:01 PM »
It would make a very nice electric Nostalgia/Super 70s ship. Without an engine head sticking down to spoil the look of the front end it would be killer!

I knew Dave Rees very well. I cut and covered the wing that was in the Talon (and the later F-5 by Dave), and even test flew the model and did some minor trimming on it. It flew extremely well, and it looked just awesome from the middle of the circle. It was powered by an OS Max .35S.

Dave was an extremely talented builder and finisher, but just an average pilot. He made his big splash in Freeflight Scale, and won several Nats crowns there and in FAC competition. He was also one of the neatest people ever on God's green earth...

Later - Bob Hunt

   
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 04:16:06 PM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 02:50:13 PM »
Here are a couple of photos of the F-5 variant. He brought this one to the 1975 Nats in Lake Charles, but crashed it in practice before appearance point judging. Believe me, it was a 20 pointer plus! You could build this variant off of the Talon plans and be legal for Nostalgia/Super 70s competition.

Later Bob Hunt

 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 10:22:52 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 03:10:55 PM »
I think I want to build one of those with Impact numbers.  If, that is, I had infinite time.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Trostle

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 04:08:46 PM »
Can anybody tell me if the T38 Talon by Dave Rees is a classic legal model? The plans arenít dated.

Back to the original question.  I think Bob Hunt explained already that this or Dave's variant of the F-5 would make really nice Super Seventies ships.  I have seen Dave's airplanes and they are all works of art.

His T-38 was published in the April 1974 issue of Flying Models.  In his article, he explained that he was inspired to do this model when he saw the full scale T-38 at an air show in 1973.  So it would be hard to get around the rules to call this Classic legal.

( I got to ride in the back seat of a T-38 and flew in formation with another T-38, but that is another story.)

Keith

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 04:22:36 PM »
Here are a couple of photos of the F-5 variant. He brought this one to the 1975 Nats in Lake Charles, but crashed it in practice before appearance point duding. Believe me, it was a 20 pointer plus! You could build this variant off of the Talon plans and be legal for Nostalgia/Super 70s competition.

Later Bob Hunt
This post brings back a lot of memories of the jet look-alike craze in the late 60's and 70's.  I remember planning to build this plane someday.  What ever happened to the cockpit detail we used to have.  Now it is a carved balsa block.  Even the best pilot figures can't see through balsa.

Thanks for the pictures.

Ken
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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2019, 04:42:17 PM »
The local Air Base trains undergrad pilots in T-38s. I never knew this model existed. This is too cool!

Thanks for posting the plans. I may have to try this in 1/2A!

Offline Trostle

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2019, 05:28:41 PM »
The local Air Base trains undergrad pilots in T-38s. I never knew this model existed. This is too cool!

Thanks for posting the plans. I may have to try this in 1/2A!

Dick Byron did an F-5 for 1/2A in the April 81 issue of Flying Models.  Full flaps, 30 1/4" span, about 190 sq. in.  If built/finished light, will do well with a TD.  A Cox Medallion would also work.

(Sorry for the upside down plans.  I have not yet figured out how to successfully post pictures here.)

Keith

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2019, 08:27:08 PM »
coincidently , someone had a spanish kit for I think a ' T-5 ' at the field the other day , slightly blocky lookinh photograph on the box .
Dunno the age , Id guess late 70s / 80s . Anyone else seen one . ?

Drg. of the T 38 .


Any pictures of Dave Rees GNAT . Bright Orange thing . Were a few B&W in a F.M. Cockpits artical by him .

This is the Mag. Feb 75 , Styrene Lite Wt. Cockpit details , 4 pages.


Offline Pepe Llopis

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2019, 04:01:00 AM »

Probably the kit you're referring to is the Northrop F5 from Modelhob

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2049

I was flying this plane when I did military service   #^


Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2019, 07:50:09 AM »
To right ,

Saw the box & got a glance inside of it .



Seems this is similar to the T-5 . a few good paint schemes to go with it .
This Cowboy says its pretty much his favourite plane to fly , in the book with it on the cover .


Arr , this explains all that ;

Better gettit back on track ,



and ask about his GNAT again .

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2019, 09:31:03 AM »
Ken wrote: "Even the best pilot figures can't see through balsa."

Just to clarify, a plastic pilot can't see through a clear plastic canopy either...  VD~

I agree with Ken that the early models with actual plastic canopies looked great. But is is a real chore to carve a custom mold, then pour a female mold around that, then pour an aluminum filled epoxy mold into that, and then find a vacuum machine with which to make the canopy. It's also getting difficult to find good CAB with which to make the canopy. So, if someone does all that I'm impressed.

On the other hand, if a builder cannot find a suitable canopy for a given model and chooses to paint on the canopy, that's fine by me as well. I'd rather see these old models reproduced with a painted on canopy rather than not reprised at all.

I had a "jet" (with an actual plastic canopy that I molded...) design just a couple of years before Dave's T-38. It was the F-105 Thunderchief. Photos attached. These photos, by the way, were taken by legendary Flying Models Editor, Don McGovern!

Later - Bob Hunt

   
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 10:21:36 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2019, 10:19:24 AM »
I agree with Ken that the early models with actual plastic canopies looked great. But is is a real chore to carve a custom mold, then pour a female mold around that, then pour an aluminum filled epoxy mold into that, and then find a vacuum machine with which to make the canopy. It's also getting difficult to find good CAB with which to make the canopy. So, if someone does all that I'm impressed.

You need to do all that work if you're making a mold that'll stand up to pulling 500 parts.  If you just need a few, you can make a plug out of hard balsa, bass, or any other wood that's easy to carve.  Finish it with glass & epoxy, sand it smooth, and you're ready to go.

There's a bunch of YouTube videos on one-off vacuum forming; if you don't want to go down that road, Zirolli Models will do it for you -- that's how I did it, and the check I wrote was about 1/5 of the price of materials it would have taken for a cheezy home-built vacuum form box.  And I suspect that they did a better job than I could have -- they certainly faithfully reproduced all of my divots, and the sanding scratches that I thought would be too small to show.

http://flyinglines.org/orin.vacuum.html
https://stunthanger.com/smf/building-techniques/home-brew-canopy-for-profile/msg533997/#msg533997

Here's a fit check with the free, reject canopy I got along with the nice-looking two I paid for:

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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2019, 02:58:19 PM »
Ken wrote: "Even the best pilot figures can't see through balsa."

Just to clarify, a plastic pilot can't see through a clear plastic canopy either...  VD~

I agree with Ken that the early models with actual plastic canopies looked great. But is is a real chore to carve a custom mold, then pour a female mold around that, then pour an aluminum filled epoxy mold into that, and then find a vacuum machine with which to make the canopy. It's also getting difficult to find good CAB with which to make the canopy. So, if someone does all that I'm impressed.

On the other hand, if a builder cannot find a suitable canopy for a given model and chooses to paint on the canopy, that's fine by me as well. I'd rather see these old models reproduced with a painted on canopy rather than not reprised at all.

I had a "jet" (with an actual plastic canopy that I molded...) design just a couple of years before Dave's T-38. It was the F-105 Thunderchief. Pic attached...

Later - Bob Hunt

   
Personally if I can't find exactly what I want at Tower or Brodak then I would have one molded like Tim suggests.  I can see on a Jet design how it would be difficult to find one already formed.  In my case though, close counts so I just use what I can buy.  The most fun I have building is making the stab followed closely by the cockpit detail and cowling. Perhaps this indicates some deep seated psychological disorder even more serious than simply flying PA.  At least my wife thinks so. <=

I remember your F-105.  It was back when we both had hair.  Really liked the model but having to deal with real life thuds sort of soured me on it.  Only plane I worked on that made me glad I was not a pilot!

Ken
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Offline Trostle

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2019, 05:02:40 PM »
This thread has sort of drifted into a discussion on canopies.  A great selection of canopies is available from Keith Sparks at:

https://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46

There is a lot more stuff of interest on that Park Flyer Plastics website.

Keith

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2019, 05:41:38 PM »
This thread has sort of drifted into a discussion on canopies.  A great selection of canopies is available from Keith Sparks at:

https://parkflyerplastics.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46

There is a lot more stuff of interest on that Park Flyer Plastics website.

Keith
Thanks for reminding me.  Just ordered a new CLEAR CANOPY and pilot figure.

Ken
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2019, 01:49:56 PM »
Bob,

I've had plans for your F-105, well, since it the magazine article (have that, too). I've been thinking about building it with electric power and flying it in Super 70s. It is a wicked cool design.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2019, 09:25:56 PM »

 It would be way cool to see one of these done up in a blue F-5 Aggressor scheme... S?P
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2019, 11:59:31 AM »
Bob,

I've had plans for your F-105, well, since it the magazine article (have that, too). I've been thinking about building it with electric power and flying it in Super 70s. It is a wicked cool design.

Thanks, Randy! Coming from you - the King of wicked cool designs - that's quite a compliment!

It flew very well, too. That amazed me. It was with the F-105 that I started winning Open Stunt (long before Expert...) on the East Coast. And, it flew much better with the drop tanks attached than with them removed. Try one, you'll like it!

Later - Bob

Offline Chuck_Smith

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »
I just found pictures of it in my NATs slides from 1974 and 1975, so that dates it at 1975 at the latest, however I believe it was at Oshkosh in 1974. Perhaps one of the most beautiful stunt ships ever to grace the line.


The question is, was it ever flown in competition? I believe he crashed it in practice and it never made a competition flight.

Chuck
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Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2019, 05:38:00 PM »
single part - agree with Tim - just make one.  here my talon (kit bashed vector40) canopy buck and parts
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2019, 07:09:17 PM »
I just found pictures of it in my NATs slides from 1974 and 1975, so that dates it at 1975 at the latest, however I believe it was at Oshkosh in 1974. Perhaps one of the most beautiful stunt ships ever to grace the line.


The question is, was it ever flown in competition? I believe he crashed it in practice and it never made a competition flight.

Chuck

Hi Chuck:

Dave brought the F-5 variant to the 1975 Nats in Lake Charles. He drove down with Fred Miles and when they arrived Fred wanted to go directly to the practice circles and get some flights in. Dave was very tired, but agreed to fly some with Fred. He lost the ship on its first flight. He never got to fly it in competition. He did discover FF Scale at that Nats, however, and the rest is history; he became one of, if not the most, successful FF Scale builder/fliers in history. The really sad part is that Dave did not get to see what his appearance point score would have been.

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2019, 03:26:00 PM »
I found the "FLYING MODELS" article.

Very Cool Plane!

Enjoy,

Bob

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2019, 03:38:53 PM »
Article attached.
File size too large?

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2019, 03:39:32 PM »
more page 2

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2019, 03:40:02 PM »
page 3

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2019, 03:40:34 PM »
page 4

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2019, 03:41:11 PM »
page 5

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2019, 03:41:41 PM »
page 6

Offline Bob Lafayette

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2019, 03:42:50 PM »
page 7
Sorry for the lengthy post.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2019, 06:03:23 PM »
By Golly Gosh .
pears theres an extra picture . however , this is preferable to to few .

Was looking for picture of a / the 1/2 A Talon plan . When this jumped out . Wondered if it to was a T -38 derived design .



How does the reflex airfoil fly , on Dave Rees  or other ships . Youd think maybe it'd steady the speed . ?

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2020, 01:49:12 PM »
Published in Flying Models 4/74 so probably Super 70s
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Offline Bootlegger

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2020, 05:56:12 PM »

  Was Dave Reeses  (spelling) powered by an OS Max 40 type stunt engine? Seems that one along that time frame was powered by one..  Thanks for the info..
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Offline Trostle

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2020, 07:21:30 PM »
The Dave Reese plans in Flying Models showed an "OS Max 35S".

Keith




  Was Dave Reeses  (spelling) powered by an OS Max 40 type stunt engine? Seems that one along that time frame was powered by one..  Thanks for the info..

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: T-38 Talon
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2020, 04:18:03 PM »
It was for sure an OS Max 35S. I flew that plane for trimming purposes, and remember the Max 35 well. It was a great flying plane!

Bob Hunt

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