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Author Topic: Playboy build pics II  (Read 3899 times)

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Playboy build pics II
« on: June 06, 2008, 02:54:31 AM »
All the wing ribs are in except the two short ones that go in the tips. The wingtips are laminated and I put 1/64 ply in the hole where the leadouts go through the tip to prevent them from cutting into the balsa. Landing gear is in and the BC is in place.
It's going a little faster than I thought it would.

Oh, I also bought the paint colors. Piper green metallic, B-25 silver, gold, and black. All Brodak colors and Randolphs clear.
-Clint-

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 04:38:57 PM »
Now, that's a blunt leading edge.  LL~

Looks good Clint. Thought anymore about pearl green?
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 07:48:38 PM »
I thought about adding the pearl to the first clear coat (over all the Piper green and trim colors) and see what happens. Problem is, if I don't like it I can't undo it. Sure would like to see the effect on someone elses model first.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 08:36:56 PM »
Clint,

In the classic words, "shoot a test panel".

Man I say that a lot.
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 09:00:42 PM »
Man, I knew you were gonna say that. I don't mind shooting a test panel. But I don't want to have to prep a test panel.

*sigh* ok, guess I'll do a panel. HB~>
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 09:20:00 PM »
Clint,
the easiest test panels if you are ONLY testing COLOR is to use a coffee can, or quart can. They are metal, smooth and only need a coat of primer for the paint to stick to. the other advantage is that they are round so you can get a better feel for how the pearl is going to look in the light on a not flat surface. Sometimes it looks great on flat only to find out that when the liight hits it at an angle you get funny flips in the color.  Another great thing about cans for test panels, you can reuse them or you can have the coolest nail storage containers on the planet,,,,,
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008, 08:51:27 AM »
Hey Clint:  Just a thought to complicate your life.  Consider doing the clear in Sig.  It is more fuel proof than either Brodak Clear or Randolph clear.  With the darker colors white fuel stain streaks will really show.  Project is looking good...no, GREAT!  ;D 
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Offline George Waters

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008, 09:47:11 AM »
Clint My vote is for the brodak dope with the auto clear on top. It's fuelproof and shines great and is easy to cleanup. George

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008, 10:37:05 AM »
Clint,
the easiest test panels if you are ONLY testing COLOR is to use a coffee can, or quart can. They are metal, smooth and only need a coat of primer for the paint to stick to. the other advantage is that they are round so you can get a better feel for how the pearl is going to look in the light on a not flat surface. Sometimes it looks great on flat only to find out that when the liight hits it at an angle you get funny flips in the color.  Another great thing about cans for test panels, you can reuse them or you can have the coolest nail storage containers on the planet,,,,,

Thanks Mark. You reminded me that I work in trade that supplies me sheet metal. Perfect test panels!

Hey Clint:  Just a thought to complicate your life.  Consider doing the clear in Sig.  It is more fuel proof than either Brodak Clear or Randolph clear.  With the darker colors white fuel stain streaks will really show.  Project is looking good...no, GREAT!  ;D 

Thanks Pete. I will consider that, but I already have a ton of the Randolph no shrink clear and it did come out good on the 'Chip. (which you haven't seen since I buffed it out).

Clint My vote is for the brodak dope with the auto clear on top. It's fuelproof and shines great and is easy to cleanup. George

I've seen that done with very good results, but I don't know anything about auto paint. Also, I understand that a repair would be more difficult with auto paint on it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 10:55:31 AM by Clint Ormosen »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 11:50:56 AM »
Clint,

Using catalyzed polyurethane top coat is no more difficult than using dope. The process is different. It's not easier or harder, just different in process. With dope, you have to lay on clear in stages giving it enough time to dry well before the next coat so that the coat underneath doesn't blend with the one you just shot on. The idea is to build up layers. Takes maybe 6-10 coats of clear to get a really good top coat with dope. Lacquer is fairly forgiving in that if it blushes or messes up in some way, it's not all that hard to fix and just move on. After it's dry enough (several weeks at least), it's pretty easy to sand and buff up and you can get some really nice finishes with it, albeit high maintenance ones.

Catalyzed Polyurethane is actually pretty easy to apply. It does best in moderate temperatures. When I can shoot it in a 60-80 degree temp range, it very easy. Just mix the base and catalyst and shoot it. A light "dust" coat, let it dry for maybe 10-15 minutes, then blast a nice medium coat over the whole thing and you're done. Let it dry for 24-48 hours and sand it out and buff it up. Give a lustrous finish.

When the temp is under 60 degree, you have to mess with it a bit. I've shot it in temps down to 45 degrees, but it requires some reducer to get it to flow and not orange peel. Above 80 degrees and you really need to use a slow catalyst, but it's not all that hard to figure out. And the best part is, it's largely fuel proof (unless you rub it too thing like I did on the Shoestring - heck of a way to find out).

The Cobra I repainted is all dope through the top coat. It worked fine also. Your choice. The polyurethane in much more fuel resistant so you don't have to be as careful with fuel. Dope is durable in other ways and works fine.

A note on repairs: It's true that the process of repair if the plane is damaged is complicated by the use of catalyzed polyurethane as a top coat. But it isn't hard once you know the process. When I fixed the Shoestring, I just had to sand the polyurethane back so it is outside the repair area. Fix the problem, re-shoot the colors, then re-shoot the clear. There are some tricks to getting it to blend, but they aren't hard once you've done them. Even after the repair, I got 19 points for the Shoestring at the NW Regionals, so obviously it's possible to fix so that the repair is largely undetectable (glad it's wasn't too sunny during appearance judging -   LL~  )

If you decide to use polyurethane for a top coat, you'll have plenty of help here. If you go with dope, well, you still have plenty of help if you need it.

A note on test panels: I use old gallon dope cans and fuel cans (well cleaned) for test panels. Mark is exactly right (as usual). Just shoot some primer and go to it. Wish I would have done a test panel before I shot the Novi. I would have know that the florescent lime green (supposed to be candy green) is hard to tone down.
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 12:05:24 PM »
Clint:  Looking forward to seeing the buffed out "Chip" and will get with you regarding your technique (mine ain't so good).  Thinking about it, the white streaks showed up bad on the "Smoothie" but that was clear coated with Certified dope - not Randolph's but I think they are comparable.  They did not show up until I went with 15% nitro fuel though, no problems w/10% so...got any extra Randolph's?  ;)
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 05:28:14 PM »
Randy, thanks for the info on clear coats. Sounds like I might try that polyurethane in the future. I think I'll stick to the dope for Playboy.

Pete, I don't know how much "extra" clear I'll have untill this plane is done. Right now I have about 1 1/4 quarts.
I didn't notice any white streaks on the Smoothie.
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 06:35:05 PM »
Just kiddi'n 'bout the extra dope Clint - but thanks for taking me seriously.  I'm using up the last of my Brodak Clear on a re-finish of my .46 sized T-Bird, from then on, $ig clear, exclusively.  Finish on the Smoothie pretty much shot due to the streaking but I still like the plane.  Vector Sport used $ig clear, looks good - I'm gonna get with you re: buffing after it cures awhile longer.  Great instructions from Randy re: Polyurethene but I'm finally getting my dope technique down - after 40 yrs it's about time!  %^@
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 07:01:35 PM »
Thanks for the reaffirmation there Randy!
A couple notes about Urethane clear. Lots of people spray it when its cold, and Randy is right, you can make it work. An important thing to note is that for the Urethane to reach full hardness and complete cure (read that as fuel proof) it must completely cross link. NOW you can spray it at any temperature that you can make it lay down at. HOWEVER you really need to bring it into a temp controlled environment. If complete cross linking does not occur within the first 24 hours ( I think that is the time, each clear is different) The catalyst will tend to loose its "punch" and the clear will not reach full strength. Again, the key is to bring it in somewhere warm to cure after it has flashed, say after 30 minutes or so. Just when its Dust free. I know Randy shoots his clear outside and I am pretty sure he brings it in after its cleared.
that having been said, Urethane clear is really much easier to get a shiney gloss finish with, assuming you play a bit before you start shooting your pride and joy. again test panels.
The only other thing Randy didnt mention, (we watch each other cause one time i will forget something and he covers me, lol) is that you do have to watch the weight. Urethane is pretty much about 50 percent solids (tahts the part that stays on the plane after its dry) Laquer is at best 10 or 12 percent.So if you think about it, 4 coats of laquer sprayed the same way as one coat of Urethane leaves the same amount of material on the airplane after its dry. So, As Randy said, spray a tack coat,, and then a flow coat, and clean your gun,, Your done!

Randy, your
Shoe was spectacular,, I was ashamed (well almost) that I got anywhere near the points with my Oriental. As you say though, judges judge , fliers fly, or is that builders build?
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 11:47:42 PM »
>>I know Randy shoots his clear outside and I am pretty sure he brings it in after its cleared. <<

Mark's right (again - Sheesh!). I shoot mine outside (urethane is nasty stuff on the lungs). Then I bring it into a nice, warm shop to cure. By my best estimate, urethane costs about 2 oz per coat of clear for a moderate sized plane. That's if you're careful and not get it on too heavy. As Mark notes. weight wise, that's about 4-5 coats of clear dope. But it is a lot more fuel proof and in some ways easier to work with. If you don't wait too long to sand and rub it, it's pretty easy. Wait past about 72 hours and it can be, ah, time consuming to rub out.

I always shoot the clear, wait 24 hours or so then sand it all out and rub it up and only then assemble the plane (glue in hinges and such). I try to wait at least 4 days before putting stuff together. The clear isn't really at it full hardness till then. I once got in a hurry and put the plane together after about 36 hours after shooting clear. Getting the cowl off turned out to be, ah, let's say difficult (like I ended up having to build a new cowl after cutting the thing off). Stuff makes great glue, as I found out.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 08:54:40 PM »
So Clint, how's it coming?
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2008, 09:29:38 PM »
Clint...from what was written in SN about the Brodak B-25 Silver...it's a candy color, and is to be used over regular silver.  I have some, haven't used it, but notice that it's not on the color charts (the ones the LHS has, anyway), and never has been, AFAIK. And LHS can't seem to order it, because it's not on the color chart.  Probably because it couldn't be shown accurately (as if the other colors are?). If in doubt, ask Winfred Urtnowski!  H^^ Steve
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2008, 09:36:13 PM »
So Clint, how's it coming?

Fine, but I took a break from it to paint the Mustang and to build a 1/2A Sportster with my 9 yr old daughter. I'll get back to it in a few days.
-Clint-

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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2008, 09:40:13 PM »
Clint...from what was written in SN about the Brodak B-25 Silver...it's a candy color, and is to be used over regular silver.  I have some, haven't used it, but notice that it's not on the color charts (the ones the LHS has, anyway), and never has been, AFAIK. And LHS can't seem to order it, because it's not on the color chart.  Probably because it couldn't be shown accurately (as if the other colors are?). If in doubt, ask Winfred Urtnowski!  H^^ Steve

Very interesting Steve. I did not know that. Since I was going to use the silver both under and over the green, that was good info to get. I guess I should get some regular silver to use as the undercoat? R/C Country in Sacramento has a ton of the B-25 silver if you wanted it. I could get some for you.
-Clint-

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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2008, 08:51:42 AM »
Here it is the 1st of July and no pictures of the finished plane.  What gives, I know why mine take so long.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Online Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 04:35:13 PM »
Here it is the 1st of July and no pictures of the finished plane.  What gives, I know why mine take so long.  Have fun,  DOC Holliday

Hey Doc,
Its those left-coasters and their addiction to hot tubs!  LL~
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2008, 10:13:01 PM »
Dennis,

Uh, no hot tubs here... unless you like sitting in the rain.   ;D
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2008, 10:29:13 PM »
No rain here, just a lot of smoke from all the fires.

Just have to finish up the clear on the Mustang and then I'm right back on the Playboy. Also started a profile Typhoon with a friend using my itty bitty shop space.
-Clint-

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Offline Leester

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2008, 01:50:25 AM »
Hey Clint: Be sure to show pics of the Typhoon when you get working on it. I'll be painting mine sometime this month I hope.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2008, 09:48:31 PM »
So Clint, how's the Playboy? I'm still sanding primer on mine (just about done).
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2008, 01:59:46 AM »
It's just kind of sitting there. I don't have a lot of time right now and I was getting the Mustang rubbed out.
I didn't know you were building a Playboy. When did that happen?
-Clint-

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2008, 09:12:25 AM »
Clint,

Sorry, I was referring to the PA plane that I've been working on it seems like forever. No Playboy. Sigh...
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Playboy build pics II
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2008, 10:23:40 PM »
Clint,

Sorry, I was referring to the PA plane that I've been working on it seems like forever. No Playboy. Sigh...


Oh. OK.
-Clint-

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