Author Topic: Freedom 45 progress (Read 4179 times)

Mike Haverly · « **on:** December 28, 2007, 09:08:04 AM »

I wanted to build a new classic plane and decided on this one for the VSC Sheeks competition. I wanted to build something for my unused ST .51 (Tom Lay) but after starting on this project decided it would be too big. I had access to an Enya .45 but was talked into an LA .46 . The LA is lighter than both of the others and should have plenty of power- I know, it is and "infidel".
The airframe has two coats of nitrate, nearly full strength, sanded with 320 and then covered with carbon fiber veil, two more coats of nitrate and sanded to blend all surfaces. This is the first time I've tried this and will do it again. The whole thing came out extremely stiff and leave an excellent substrate.
The wings are covered with Polyspan then two coats of nitrate on the entire airplane, again nearly full strength. I finding that this is a judgement call as the nitrate I buy is very thick, like molasses, and doesn't brush well. The idea here is to get all of the pores filled without saturating. Then very lightly sanded with 400. This is where you want to be careful not to raise the hairs on the Polyspan.
After that came one very heavy coat of talcum infested butyrate, sanded and one coat of grey butyrate (instead of silver).
I plan on using Auto Air Colors water base to finish and clear coat with two part polyurethane. So far no problems with the Auto Air products. They have a good web sight with a lot of information. We'll see!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2007, 09:37:53 AM »

Mike,

Looks really good. I had planned to build this plane also, but got sidetracked. Glad to see you are working on it. Should be awesome. I had planned to use my Magnum 53 in mine.

I will be anxious to see it when it's done.

Thanks for doing the hauling to VSC ... if I ever get the Cobra done.

Bill Little · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2007, 08:30:47 AM »

Hi Mike,

That's looking SWEET so far.

Airacobra · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2007, 12:41:44 PM »

Mike, the 45 is looking very nice. Keep up the great work. I will be anxious to see the end result.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2007, 04:24:19 PM »

Looking real nice Mike. Have you devised your paint scheme yet? I look forward to hearing how the auto air colors work out for you. Might talk to Randy as I recall he has some experience with them? From my experience, they cover very well, and have good color saturation. The only thing I ever questioned was adhesion, but If youfollow their guidlines and provide tooth for it to bite into it should be a good way to go. I am planning on the 109 using The Polyspan I got from you on the wings and tail surfaces. Looking forward to that adventure.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #5 on:** January 01, 2008, 08:36:19 PM »

I'm going to try to paint it like the original in the magazine. Colors are red, white and blue. Right now it is all white (boring) so I didn't take a picture. Tommorrow I'll start the colors and post another picture. So far there hasn't been a problem with adhesion. According to the literature one four ounce bottle should cover three to four square feet. I used one and one-half bottles of white. This thing is 660 square inches, so that seems pretty good to me.
Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #6 on:** January 01, 2008, 09:09:23 PM »

Hi Mike,

If you follow the directions and use a heat gun to insure it cured, it works fine. Watching the surface, it's pretty clear when it completely cured. It changes texture. Looks flat and dull (it will shine up with topcoat). I had problems with it because I made the subsurface too smooth (it's only a mechanical bond so you need some tooth) and I didn't get it completely dry. When I use the stuff again (and I will), I plan to use a de-humidifier in the shop.

If it's completely dry, the adhesion will be fine. I'm looking forward to seeing the final product.

I just started my next Classic plane. It will be, uh, interesting. Wild, but interesting.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2008, 12:29:44 AM »

Mike,

As usual your work is impeccable. looks like you have another beauty in the works.

Joe Connelly · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2008, 09:44:51 AM »

Can one of you guys tell me what the cost is for the Auto Air colors is. I went on the site but could not find the prices.

Thanks, Joe Connelly

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2008, 12:15:39 PM »

Joe,
I've been buying it from a local automotive paint store at about $6.50 per 4 oz. bottle. Here is a web sight, I believe the prices are about the same. http://www.spraykings.com/products.php?category=55 It seems expensive but it goes a long way. Be sure to follow all of their instructions, especially clean up. I've found that I need to thin it a little more than they say, but then I'm using less air pressure. They suggest 30-40 psi and I've been using 20-25 with pretty good results.

Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2008, 12:27:02 PM »

Mike is right on. Follow the directions and a little 4oz bottle will go a very long way.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2008, 04:28:06 PM »

I have to go to work now but here it is almost ready for red, white and blue trim and graphics. Should be about done tommorrow.

Mike

Bill Little · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2008, 07:52:36 AM »

Mike, that is outstanding! Good luck with the LA 46 in there!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2008, 11:18:14 AM »

Looks good, Mike. If you don't have enough juice with the OS 46, I have lawn mower engine you can try.

Just starting cutting wood on my new classic ship. Wish the plans I had were more detailed, but I do have some pictures that will help.

Do you have an idea of all up weight on the 45?

And yes, Bill, my new classic plane will have a canopy and cockpit. I plan to use an itty-bitty redneck as a pilot figure. I'm getting my wife to sew up a little pair of Oshkosh's for him.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #14 on:** January 05, 2008, 12:37:52 PM »

Randy, I'm hoping for low to mid fifty oz. I still have the ST.51 option, should find out in a couple of weeks, if the wind and rain ever stop.

Is the Cobra done?

Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #15 on:** January 05, 2008, 01:28:31 PM »

Mike,

Nope, not yet. I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can shoot clear.

David Miller · « **Reply #16 on:** January 06, 2008, 11:16:23 AM »

Super job Mike as always. Looking forward to seeing it. You will like the .46!!!

Bill Little · « **Reply #17 on:** January 06, 2008, 02:34:10 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 04, 2008, 11:18:14 AM

Looks good, Mike. If you don't have enough juice with the OS 46, I have lawn mower engine you can try.

Just starting cutting wood on my new classic ship. Wish the plans I had were more detailed, but I do have some pictures that will help.

Do you have an idea of all up weight on the 45?

And yes, Bill, my new classic plane will have a canopy and cockpit. I plan to use an itty-bitty redneck as a pilot figure. I'm getting my wife to sew up a little pair of Oshkosh's for him.

My "good luck" comment is due to what I have seen around here on full fuselage stunters of this size powered with the LA 46. They work fine on Cardinal Profiles and TEOSAWKIs.

OshKosh's are out with the RNMM.......... no bib overalls.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #18 on:** January 06, 2008, 05:02:46 PM »

Man, Bill, you're tough. I was thinking about a John Deer ball cap, a front tooth missing, Oshkosh's over a "longy's" shirt and red hair with freckles. Now you rain on my parade.

Oh well, it may be moot anyway. I can't find a canopy the right shape. But I'll keep looking.

My backup is my favorite pilot: Juan Diego Raphael Mendez, the fearless decedent of Zoro. He's pretty cool, but I haven't been able to talk him into one of my planes in years.

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** January 06, 2008, 09:51:46 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 06, 2008, 05:02:46 PM

Man, Bill, you're tough. I was thinking about a John Deer ball cap, a front tooth missing, Oshkosh's over a "longy's" shirt and red hair with freckles. Now you rain on my parade.

Oh well, it may be moot anyway. I can't find a canopy the right shape. But I'll keep looking.

My backup is my favorite pilot: Juan Diego Raphael Mendez, the fearless decedent of Zoro. He's pretty cool, but I haven't been able to talk him into one of my planes in years.

The pilot in Aaron's Mk I T-Bird has a John Deere baseball cap.

Patrick Rowan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 06, 2008, 10:02:48 PM »

LA 46s run great in full fuse inverted engine stunt planes.

I say this because I've built 6 so far.

Bill Little · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2008, 07:20:36 AM »

Quote from: Patrick Rowan on January 06, 2008, 10:02:48 PM

LA 46s run great in full fuse inverted engine stunt planes.

I say this because I've built 6 so far.

Hi PAtrick,

I keep hearing that!

Then I see the remains of planes like Fitton's........................

For serious stuff, I just choose to use a serious engine, not a *one size fits all*, cause that's all they really are...............

Patrick Rowan · « **Reply #22 on:** January 07, 2008, 05:22:50 PM »

I based what I said about LA 46s on my personal experience flying them in contest.

You based what you said on LA 46s on what you have heard.

There is a big difference.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2008, 06:55:50 PM »

The 46LA is a pretty popular engine around here, also. I've seen them in full fuse planes and profiles. If set up right, they seem to run great. Bruce Hunt was using one in his new Southwick Lark and after some initial problems in getting it set up, it seem to settle in and do quite well. Pat Johnston was using one in both his Profile P-40 (the original of his design) and in a full fuse version that again seem to run quite well.

I've got a 40LA (new) and a 46LA (used) that both seem to run dead steady on the bench. I used the 46 in Pat's beefy QED profile, but haven't gotten the setup down yet.

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2008, 11:41:53 PM »

Mike,
I am glad to hear that you will also have a detailed cockpit. Maybe we can embarrass more people into building detailed stunters again. People have gotten too lazy these days..... Are you there,Dennis?

Bill Little · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2008, 09:58:55 AM »

Quote from: Patrick Rowan on January 07, 2008, 05:22:50 PM

I based what I said about LA 46s on my personal experience flying them in contest.

You based what you said on LA 46s on what you have heard.

There is a big difference.

EDIT: ain't worth it...... my bad.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #26 on:** January 08, 2008, 01:11:34 PM »

Bill, relax! Remember the saying about opinions and belly buttons; "Everybody's got 'em" I've had pretty good luck with LA's .25, .40 and .46. For me, in this case I had a choice between a new ST G51, a borrowed Enya 45 (original period engine) or the LA.46. The Tigre is real big and heavy and the LA has more power than the Enya (opinion of the owner of the Enya). Choice was simple for me, but the Tigre option is still there!

Another learning curve on the Auto Air Colors. I had a lot of bleeding on my mask job. I had to spend three days fixing things. Feel better Randy

? I figured out that I had to use my smallest tip for my air brush and not quite so thin. Still learning, but I think it'll be OK.

I've never done panel lines before, but I think this model is begging for them. There is still some lettering and other embellishments also.

Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #27 on:** January 08, 2008, 04:15:28 PM »

Mike,

That's AWESOME! I love the paint scheme. Looks like it could have rolled out of a General Dynamics hanger.

Should have mine done (or as done as it's going to get) in the next few days. I'll post something with it's completed.

Bill Little · « **Reply #28 on:** January 08, 2008, 04:17:37 PM »

Hi Mike,

That is gorgeous so far! Really pretty, pretty paint scheme.

I'm relaxed on the engine thingie. It all goes back to the recent threads Brett has posted on engine runs, etc., and such! I just like engines that are really designed for our purposes.

For me, they are far less hassle, and give me a better run which helps me fly better, and I need all the help I can get! LOL!!

Your model is looking outstanding!

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #29 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:45:30 PM »

Quote from: Tom Niebuhr on January 07, 2008, 11:41:53 PM

Mike,
I am glad to hear that you will also have a detailed cockpit. Maybe we can embarrass more people into building detailed stunters again. People have gotten too lazy these days..... Are you there,Dennis?

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #30 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:49:48 PM »

How RUDE of me:

Hey MIKE: a MOST AWESOME paint scheme. I would expect no less of a bird named FREEDOM 45!

Heck that oughta even make Tom happy!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #31 on:** January 08, 2008, 10:22:36 PM »

OK, Dennis, find me a canopy that will work on my new classic plane and I'll do a full boogie cockpit.

He, he. Good luck with that.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #32 on:** January 08, 2008, 10:49:01 PM »

Mike: I hope this means we'll see it at the meeting Thursday night (Jan. 10?). Oh, wait, you have to go to work 2nd shift. Aw, sh't!

Randy: If you'd let us know what Classic you're building, then we might be able to help. What was the original canopy used? Have you checked Bill Sawyer's massive list? SIG's? What about molding your own? It can't be that hard. Ty wrote something about remolding a 1 or 2 liter pop bottle. Spray the inside with smoke tinted clear, or whatever other color suits your fancy. The R/C car guys have spraycans of that stuff.

Steve

Randy Powell · « **Reply #33 on:** January 09, 2008, 10:23:33 AM »

Steve,

It's a Bernie Ash "Supersonic". The canopy is about 16" long (obviously cut from a much larger unit) and of a somewhat interesting shape.

Bill Little · « **Reply #34 on:** January 10, 2008, 08:23:00 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 08, 2008, 10:22:36 PM

OK, Dennis, find me a canopy that will work on my new classic plane and I'll do a full boogie cockpit.

He, he. Good luck with that.

Looking at the picture Ty posted, it looks like what we had to do to get a USA-1 canopy...........

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #35 on:** January 10, 2008, 09:38:50 AM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 07, 2008, 07:20:36 AM

Hi PAtrick,

I keep hearing that!

Then I see the remains of planes like Fitton's........................

For serious stuff, I just choose to use a serious engine, not a *one size fits all*, cause that's all they really are...............

For what its worth, the LA probably does do well in most built up stunt planes. I had one in my Time Machine 50 that got me quite a few Advanced trophies, and worked very well for 250 flights or so. The issues with the Avanti 50 seemed to be around the very very thick wing-thicker than the TM 50 wing. Avantis seem to crave excessive power-when I flew Eric Viglione's Avanti 60 at Huntersville, it used up every bit of power from a PA-61, and my ill fated Avanti 60 used up every bit of power from my DS-60, when the same engine seems to sometimes overpower my Time Machine 60. My Time Machine 50 weighed 58 ounces, my Avanti 50 weighed 54 ounces, my Time Machine 60 weighs 62 oz, and the Avanti 60 weighed 63 or so. Weight didn't seem to play as big a role as the thickness of the wing.
There is a pretty big weight difference between the ST 51 and the LA, so if you balance ok with the LA (ie don't need noseweight with it), its worth trying on the LA out first. If you end up tail heavy at the low mid 50 ounce range, it might be worthwhile going with the ST 51 right out of the box. You would get the correct balance and some more power at the same time.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #36 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:09:09 AM »

Steve, you hit my reasoning for the LA right on. The design of this model will most likely be nose heavy and the airfoil is fairly thin, about 1 7/8 at the root. I am using a 1/2" shaft extension to get the engine as far back as possible. I really don't think power will be an issue and as far as set for run I always thought they were pretty turnkey. 10/22 Powermaster, 11 1/2x4 (about) prop. and a sloppy 2 stroke. Most complaint are that they can't get a "traditional" stunt run. Well, they are what they are. Like I said, the Tom Lay ST51 is still an option.
I got lettering on yesterday now I'm still thinking about panel lines.

Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #37 on:** January 10, 2008, 11:02:33 AM »

>>Looking at the picture Ty posted, it looks like what we had to do to get a USA-1 canopy...........<<

Trust me, it's not big enough.

Bill Little · « **Reply #38 on:** January 11, 2008, 01:46:20 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on January 10, 2008, 11:02:33 AM

>>Looking at the picture Ty posted, it looks like what we had to do to get a USA-1 canopy...........<<

Trust me, it's not big enough.

Sorry, I was not clear. I meant using the upper/front/rear, etc. section cut out of a much larger canopy. Sig makes those bubbles real big.

Not sure it would work, but food for thought and there are other canopies out there to use the method on.

Terry Bolin · « **Reply #39 on:** January 12, 2008, 07:44:11 AM »

Bears repeating, Great job! I like the graphics. Look forward to the finnal finish!
Terry

Randy Powell · « **Reply #40 on:** January 12, 2008, 12:56:16 PM »

Mike,

This plane just screams for scale lime panel lines and markings. I also am looking forward to seeing it.

Mike Haverly · « **Reply #41 on:** January 26, 2008, 09:53:47 PM »

Hopefully I'll be clear coating tommorrow. I've spent a lot of time (too much) fixing mistakes and applying panel lines. The mistakes are partly the learning curve for using this painting system added to my first attempt at inking. I'll try to write down a few things I learned about this pain when I'm done; wait, I've got another plane to finish! My new PA model, a Shrike is all yellow waiting for trim. It is also done with water base paint so I'll either be pretty good at it or really tired of it when I'm done.

Mike

Randy Powell · « **Reply #42 on:** January 26, 2008, 09:57:41 PM »

Man, that is looking nice, Mike. Should be a real crowd pleaser.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #43 on:** January 26, 2008, 10:45:17 PM »

Mike
looks great! look forward to seeing it in person for sure! Are you clearcoating with Urethane clear? Good luck, I know the clear is kinda always the step that bothers me the most, I can fix anything else, but once the clear goes on,, well, its more of a problem to fix,, deep breaths, clean air, steady trigger,, have fun

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #44 on:** January 27, 2008, 07:49:50 AM »

Mike,
Looks like a good candidate for the Sheeks award.

There is no way that I will have my Sea Vixen completed in time. Looks like I will have to wait a year before I get back to VSC. I am already disappointed.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #45 on:** January 27, 2008, 07:05:52 PM »

Looks great, Mike! Let me know when you want to go fly it, and I'll take a day off work

(please!). We can go to Arlington or Chehelis.

Steve

Randy Powell · « **Reply #46 on:** February 24, 2008, 04:23:27 PM »

Mike flew it for the first time today. Very slick. Engine run was near perfect. It will need some trim (I knew that nose was too short -

), but is looking very good. Mike did a really terrific job.