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  • December 03, 2021, 08:40:34 AM

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Author Topic: Flying wing rebuild  (Read 6475 times)

Offline jkrause528

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Flying wing rebuild
« on: October 10, 2015, 06:55:39 AM »
My neighbor had this in his attic and I am curious if anyone has seen it before. I am going to revive it and would like to know if there are any plans available as the inner wing panel will need to be rebuilt. It has a Enya 15 that needs a needle valve and looks to be brand new. 
Thanks,
Jim

Offline Gary Mondry

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2015, 08:11:45 AM »
Fierce arrow 400 by Bill Netzeband:  http://www.controllineplans.com/Images/fa400web.jpg
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Offline jkrause528

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2015, 08:38:03 AM »
That looks like the one. Thank you. Seems to be a lot of info available for it. This has definitely re kindled my interest in CL flying.

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2015, 04:04:30 PM »
Yes, a Fierce Arrow 400.  I have one and it will do a decent job of flying the pattern.  I use a McCoy .19 Red Head in mine, but a .15 would fly it fine especially a modern .15.  I need to fly it in Classic/Nostalgia 30 at Huntersville.....
Bill
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Offline Ken Burdick

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 08:26:49 PM »
the arrow line is just fun....love the looks. The big brother is kitted. RSM?
How do they fly? (full size)

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 04:57:09 PM »
the arrow line is just fun....love the looks. The big brother is kitted. RSM?
How do they fly? (full size)

Hi Ken,

The only full size Fierce Arrow I have seen fly is the one Charlie Reeves from Kentucky built.  It looks awesome in the air but it definitely isn't the best pattern plane from the Classic era, hahaha.
But I admit, Charlie did a good job with it!  Of course, he has one of those magic hands.  The best flights by a FA-400 was by Todd Lee at a King Orange several years ago when it was held in Bunnell, Fla.  The whole top section was removable on his and he had an old Fox .19 in it (3 bolt back plate).  He flew it  extremely well!  Of course he DID make the USA team for the WC not too long after. (see a pattern here?)  I built mine from a set of plans Todd gave me.  Mine has a McCoy RH .19 which was the only good running .15-19 I had at the time.  I have thought of swapping it for an OS .15 LA or FP.  Wild Bill flew his with a Fox .15XX (not a mis-print).  The secret of flying any of the Fierce Arrows well is being an  excellent pilot! LOL!! (and I am not one of those!) LL~

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Offline phil c

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2021, 05:45:50 PM »
My neighbor had this in his attic and I am curious if anyone has seen it before. I am going to revive it and would like to know if there are any plans available as the inner wing panel will need to be rebuilt. It has a Enya 15 that needs a needle valve and looks to be brand new. 
Thanks,
Jim

I built one, with an Enya 15 if I remember correctly.  It could do a decent pattern in good weather.  It didn't have much leeway though.  The big elevator on the back could act as an airbrake if you got in trouble- especially bad up high, like the overhead eights.  The elevator could get blanked by the wind and the plane would quit responding.  Instinct called for more elevator, but I crashed at the NATS straight in from the overhead eights.  It was a bit windy, it stopped turning.  I reacted with more elevator and it stopped flying and went straight in.  The plane survived, but the motor was toast.

If you want an improved ARROW, one of the builders did a nice job of updating it with a longer span wing, twin booms for the stabilator, and better balance of everything.  It does look like the next gen Fierce Arrow and flies much better.

My memory's been screwed up a bit but search for fierce arrow or just arrow.  Somebody else will probably come along with the right name, builder, etc.
phil Cartier

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2021, 10:04:31 PM »
the arrow line is just fun....love the looks. The big brother is kitted. RSM?
How do they fly? (full size)

   I tried to find a thread about the larger Fierce Arrow that I had posted but can't right now. I bought Mike Gretz's Fierce Arrow a couple of years after he had passed away.. Took a while to get the tank cleaned out and a few other odds and ends but aft the end of that summer I had it running pretty decent and finally got to put some full patterns on it. Fred Cronenwett made a video of some detail information and a couple of flights. In the thread I mentioned Brett Buck explained some little take off and landing quirks that the large one has and I had hoped to fly it again this summer and try mastering the take off and landing issues it has but that didn't work out. Maybe next year. Gretz's model weighs 52 ounces and I had my doubts about the Fox .35 being able to fly it with any authority but and experimenting with props I settled on the Rev-Up 10-6 EW and that is what is on it in the second flight in the video. I have the original plans out of M.A.N. for the FA-400 and John Miller had a set of CAD plans for it where he updated some construction points on the 400 also. It's on my list of things to do in retirement. The large one flies better than you might expect I think. I only have about 4 full patterns on it and was just getting some confidence in the airplane when the flying season ran out that year. I just gotta learn take offs and landings to avoid that little oscillation you'll see in the take off and landing. Here is the video;

     

    Type at you later,
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2021, 11:06:33 AM »
Dan,
Did you try sealing the hinge line? Seems that could make a big difference in the control response. Back in the day they really didn't think about sealing the hinges and although some did end to end cloth most only hinged the minimum cause we HATE hinging (still do!!).

I really like the look of the FA and the FA400. Also like the Stuntwing by Red R. I hope to build these ships one day but have to figure out were to store them as my plane rake is full and I have a few ships in construction now. Maybe the wings can slide under the bed?

Best,    DennisT

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2021, 11:26:49 PM »
Dan,
Did you try sealing the hinge line? Seems that could make a big difference in the control response. Back in the day they really didn't think about sealing the hinges and although some did end to end cloth most only hinged the minimum cause we HATE hinging (still do!!).

I really like the look of the FA and the FA400. Also like the Stuntwing by Red R. I hope to build these ships one day but have to figure out were to store them as my plane rake is full and I have a few ships in construction now. Maybe the wings can slide under the bed?

Best,    DennisT


   It's a different phenomenon. It has to do with the elevator deflection actually changing the airfoil camber at a certain airspeed and makes the wing act differently until it gets more airspeed. Brett Buck explained the physics behind it in the thread and after flying the model a few times and reading the explanation I have to agree. It's the very small deflections that instigate the action. The airplane just had to be in it's best trim and you need a steady hand at take off and landing and just let the model fly. You can tweak the controls at all or it does funny stuff He explains what type of hinge would help the situation but I don't think that would be allowed in competition, but for sport flying anything goes. I'll keep looking for the thread.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

   PS to add;
  I just took a quick look with some different key words and found trhis thread, but I don't think it's the one I had in mind. The one I'm thinking of I also posted the same video.

     https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/fierce-arrow-875/msg543536/#msg543536

  PPS: I'll hate myself in the morning for staying up this late but I finally found the thread;

          https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/mike-gretz's-fierce-arrow/msg596966/#msg596966
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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Flying wing rebuild
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2021, 09:32:59 AM »
Dan,
Thanks for the links, I now remember the issue. After reading the posts it seems that this is one time that sealing the hinge line is not what you want, as a matter of fact a gap helps. Looking at the proposed fix it is very similar to what Red did on the Stuntwing. I have been fascinated by the flying wing concept for stunt for a while and want to play with it a bit.

Since I fly OTS mostly the only ship available is the "Flip-Flop". It is the same basic layout as the Stuntwing and seems to have been one of the first to use the narrow outer wing section with the wide center. Several combat ships later used this but it does take extra wood and is more complicated to build than a straight wing so guess that's a negative for combat ships. I think it will be pretty good with electric power.

Best,    DennisT

 


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