Author Topic: Fierce Arrow stunt wing (Read 2848 times)

Tom Weedon · « **on:** December 14, 2009, 07:03:05 AM »

Has anyone built and flown the Fierce Arrow Stunt wing (M.A.N. Aug. '57)?

It is classic legal and I was wondering how it flys and if anyone had problems with it. I have the original article and I find it an interesting project. But I'm not going to waste a lot of time building it if it is a dud. $:-\$

Tom Weedon, AMA 2537

Dennis Saydak · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2009, 12:15:55 PM »

I've built two of them. They are very impressive in the air and are capable of performing the entire pattern especially when built light. They do tend to bounce around a bit in turbulence because of all the wing area. My first one had a Johnson Stunt Supreme for power. My current one has a Tom Dixon K&B .40 for power. Both of mine have great line tension.

Balsa Butcher · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2009, 01:04:33 PM »

You may or may not know this but RSM kits the design and on the web site there is an illustrated building guide for the plane that you can study and/or print out. I have seen a few of them fly at VSC and other contests. They are very impressive in the air.

Tom Weedon · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2009, 06:38:22 AM »

Thanks for your responce, fellows. Very informative. I am now entering my new childhood in model aviation. I flew c/l back in the 50's and 60's. By the 80's I was fully in-grossed in r/c. Now I have come full circle and want to get back into c/l. I have been flying OT and classic these last 3 years and enjoy it very much. I can now relive my childhood. I guess I'll never grow up, especially with a basement full of model airplanes

rustler · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2009, 02:17:33 PM »

[quote Ty Marcucci - We have to grow older, but we don't have to grow up. CL forever.

[/quote]

Funny you should say that. Possibly the name of the sadly late David Baker (founder of SAM 35 and SAM 1066) is known to some of you? David was not a C/L enthusiast, but he came to tolerate it a bit. A fantasy of mine was to build a twice size (100"?) FA, powered by a Moki M6 25cc. I was going to stand it on its wingtip, knock on his door and have him open it to be confronted by me standing/hiding behind this machine.
Thank god I never even started it!

Mike Keville · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2009, 03:12:31 PM »

De Hill (Tulsa, OK) flew one of those at the very first VSC in 1989. He flew a "freestyle" stunt pattern, and had as much fun as anyone. Go ahead an build it. They're a hoot!

john e. holliday · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2009, 06:50:47 PM »

I got the privelage of helping Don McClave at a VSC a few years ago. He made it look easy flying the pattern with it.

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:02:07 AM »

Hello Tom!
It's still Precision Aerobatics either way!
Good to see you here,
Dean Pappas

Trostle · « **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2009, 08:43:12 AM »

Quote from: Mike Keville on December 15, 2009, 03:12:31 PM

De Hill (Tulsa, OK) flew one of those at the very first VSC in 1989. He flew a "freestyle" stunt pattern, and had as much fun as anyone. Go ahead an build it. They're a hoot!

The airplane can be built heavy. For it to fly well, it really needs to be light.

I case I did not mention it, keep the airplane light.

Keith

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2009, 09:32:29 AM »

This has been posted before. Here is Steve Wooley with a Fierce Arrow. The wheel pants really dress it up.

Willis Swindell · « **Reply #10 on:** December 17, 2009, 02:43:12 PM »

I took a 400 and blew it up to a 650 and it flew good with a fox 40.
Willis

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #11 on:** December 17, 2009, 07:49:20 PM »

RSM offers the Fierce Arrow in two sizes. Saves a lot of time!

Tom Weedon · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:32:31 AM »

Quote from: Dean Pappas on December 16, 2009, 08:02:07 AM

Hello Tom!
It's still Precision Aerobatics either way!
Good to see you here,
Dean Pappas

Dean,
I still have 2 pattern planes in flying condition (Black Magic and a Progeny), but I have this strange need to re-live my childhood. Must be my declining years. So my goal is to build and fly replicas of all the c/l planes that I used to own 50 years ago and to build and fly the ones that I always wanted but could never afford as a kid.

phil c · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:05:11 PM »

I built a FA 400 with an Enya 15 years ago. It flew OK, but it had problems with "square" corners. It couldn't come anywhere near the corner radius of a Nobler or other conventional design. If I tried, it would slow up so much that the third and fourth corners in a square loop had to be run into each other, making the 4th corner 1/4 of a loop.

All the big ones I've seen fly had the same problem. It's a nifty sport plane. I spent a lot of time tinkering with a higher aspect ratio version, but it never got off the bench. To many design issues and it wouldn't look at all like the original.

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2009, 07:31:18 PM »

Quote from: phil c on December 20, 2009, 06:05:11 PM

I built a FA 400 with an Enya 15 years ago. It flew OK, but it had problems with "square" corners...

What if you upped the power and elevator area? Both simple mods when building.
Looks like the elevators are lacking toward the tips on the big RSM version.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2009, 09:59:43 AM »

Classic does not allow enlarging areas of a design. Anything you can't see can be done. I think more power would do it with an increase in speed also. MERRY CHRISTMAS

phil c · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2009, 01:24:12 PM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on December 20, 2009, 07:31:18 PM

What if you upped the power and elevator area? Both simple mods when building.
Looks like the elevators are lacking toward the tips on the big RSM version.

The low aspect ratio gets very draggy when turned hard, so the plane slows down a lot.
Having the elevator right on the wing trailing edge kills a lot of lift when you use more than a small amount of elevator. In order to turn the plane, the pressure on the top of the elevator has to go up, and this spills forward onto the wing, reducing lift. The bigger the elevator, the worse it gets.

Red Reinhardt's Stunt Wing is similar vintage, but he used a straight wing and extended the tail several inches with a smaller elvator, so it get more leverage and doesn't affect the wing so much. Obviously it doesn't look anything like a Fierce Arrow.

If you could build it really really light, say 10 oz airframe, and used an F2D type engine(4 oz, 1 hp) it probably would be a lot better.

rustler · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2009, 02:11:30 PM »

Quote from: phil c

If you could build it really really light, say 10 oz airframe, and used an F2D type engine(4 oz, 1 hp) it probably would be a lot better.

Wow!

Is this a case for using one of those geared F1C engines in stunt?

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #18 on:** December 25, 2009, 10:23:12 AM »

Bill was experimenting with the F.A. concept as late as 2005, with several experienced modelers producing models to his plans. Below are pictures of some completed variants. One area I noted in an almost complete model at VSC 14 or 15, was the elevator treatment, with altered pivot point to create a slot when deflected. We discussed other ways to improve the tailless stunter's performance, and Bill was fully cognizant of some alternate design advantages, but as he rightly put it, "Then it wouldn't be a Fierce Arrow." He wanted to optimize the design within the original essential concept, not expecting a world beater. Still, he seems to have arrived very close to the configuration of Mike Pratt's "Delta Forcee", reputedly a good performer. I'm not sure what Bill's final level of satisfaction was on this.

SK

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #19 on:** December 25, 2009, 10:29:04 AM »

'sorry - hit the wrong key!

SK

Bill Little · « **Reply #20 on:** January 02, 2010, 06:16:13 PM »

Like the esteemeed Mr. Trostle said: Keep it LIGHT.

I built a Fierce Arrow 400, powered it with a McCoy Red Head .19 after seeing Todd Lee's FA 400. His advice was to build it as light as I possibly could. I did and it does fly a respectable pattern. It is good for our local Classic contests since we have a few NATS winners always flying in the event! (and I don't stand a chance

) It is still soft in squares, but not as bad as some I've seen. They definitely cannot be *hammered*......

Charlie Reeves' Fierce Arrow is a great flying Classic model.

Big Bear

Author Topic: Fierce Arrow stunt wing (Read 2848 times)

Willis Swindell