Author Topic: Best Plane to not have won a Nats? (Read 6245 times)

Jim Pollock · « **on:** April 27, 2009, 04:06:09 PM »

I'm curious again. Gee, what's new???

I was wondering everyone's opinion as to what Classic airplane should and could have won the Nats but never did?

Here are a couple of my opinions:

1. Jim Kostecky's Formula S
2. Lew McFarland's Shark .35

What else? Novi III maybe? Or, Olympic Mark IV?
Let's hear everyone opinion please?

Jim Pollock

John Miller · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:48:21 PM »

Dave Gierke's All American Eagle. Dave made the choice to fly one of the Novi versions instead. He wound up selling the AAE to Tom Lay before leaving the Nats'

My experience with the one I built, is it's very capable of winning the Nats' with the right pilot.

jim gilmore · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2009, 04:56:31 PM »

Stunt machine.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2009, 09:31:26 PM »

The Harbinger 40 I just built?

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:10:27 AM »

How about Gene Schaffer's Hallmark (second at the 1976 Nats by 1.6 points!).

Or, how about Bob Gialdini's Olympic Mk III at the 1961 Nats (He took third that year, but many - including me - thought he had won it outright).

Bob Hunt

Serge_Krauss · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2009, 07:43:24 AM »

Perhaps Mario Rondinelli's "Venus", which he said lost by fewer points than he lost in appearance points, due to a field repair?

SK

Bill Little · « **Reply #6 on:** April 29, 2009, 12:29:45 AM »

Hi Jim!

A TOUGH question!

Not mentioned so far in no particular order:

Southwick 56" Skylark, T-Bird II (bubble canopy version, Mr. Palmer did win Open but not the Walker Trophy), Caprice

I am guessing you are asking about *Classic* planes, right?

If not, Bob's Saturn, Billy's Juno, Junar, Geo XL, Geo Bolts (P-47s)...................

Mongo

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2009, 06:31:58 AM »

Hi Bill,

Yes, the question was directed for "classic" era planes, we know that the Nobler has 11-12 or so nats wins so count that out. I was thinking of Dave Gierke's and Jim Kostecky's designs mostly when I drafted the question.

What about the Phoenician and the Chizler both were second place airplanes at various Nats?

Jim Pollock

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2009, 07:22:16 AM »

Rolland McDonald's various Detroiter/Challenger iterations.

Gerry Phelps Patriot: 3rd at 69 NATs then ran away with the Team trials that fall.

Jerry Worth's Apteryx.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2009, 09:14:28 PM »

And.... Jim Silhavy won the Nats twice with a Nobler, what about his Gypsy. I think the Gypsy was basically a Nobler with a Gieseke wing with the gear in it and slightly reshaped aft fuselage. I also think that the plane Dennis beat for the Walker Cup, Al's Bearcat was mighty good to. I especially think it was really good after watching Keith fly his in Dec of 03, while on business in Long Beach.

Jim Pollock

Bob Hunt · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2009, 06:46:58 AM »

How about Billy Werwage's Super Ares which placed second behind Bob Gialdini's Sting Ray at the 1963 Nats?

Bob Hunt

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2009, 05:38:34 PM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on April 29, 2009, 09:14:28 PM

And.... Jim Silhavy won the Nats twice with a Nobler, what about his Gypsy. I think the Gypsy was basically a Nobler with a Gieseke wing with the gear in it and slightly reshaped aft fuselage. I also think that the plane Dennis beat for the Walker Cup, Al's Bearcat was mighty good to. I especially think it was really good after watching Keith fly his in Dec of 03, while on business in Long Beach.

Jim Pollock

I don't think Jim placed really high with a Gypsy - but they were darned good airplanes.

I believe Al's Bearcat was 2nd to "Champione" in 1969 - guess that qualifies it as a pretty good airplane too!

I won the Walker in 1972 (outside the classic era) when Al was flying the 2nd(?) Sea Fury - still one of my favorite CLPA birds of all time!

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2009, 08:44:21 PM »

Bob,

After re-scrutinizing Gialdini's 63 AM Annual article, the plans are for the Mark VI "6", he stated that in 62 he couldn't fly it in the Nats becasue a hunting problem had not been solved so he flew last years plane the Mark V "5" that Wild Bill was waxing enthusiastic about. The Mark 5 was the plane he flew at the '61 Nats. At least that's what the article indicates.

Jim Pollock

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:13:59 PM »

Well, another plane I thought of after swishing around in Tom Morris's Classic era Stunt Bibliography is the Torino.
Didn't it do really well is some late 60's Nats? I'm thinking 67-68 or so....

?

Jim Pollock

John Miller · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:22:03 PM »

The Torino did do well at it's appearance at the Nat's, but due to the fact that it wasn't entirely built by the pilot, he lost appearance points and that moved him way down in the results.

I built one to fly at this years VSC. It looks like a sliver out at the ends of the lines, but turns well, and reallly accents the stright lines in the squares.

I built mine in a hurry and had a problem due to taking a few short cuts. I developed flutter on the outside portions of the flaps. I pulled it from compwetition, and flew my back up plane instead.

I'm planning on fixing the problem, and using it for competition this year.

There are some issues you'll need to know about, so if you decide to build one, I'll be willing to help steer you through them if you want.

RC Storick · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2009, 07:53:51 PM »

Quote from: Crist Rigotti on April 27, 2009, 09:31:26 PM

The Harbinger 40 I just built?

James C. Johnson · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:01:17 PM »

Quote

It looks like a sliver out at the ends of the lines

Maybe? The first Stealth Stunter !!!

Jim

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2009, 01:56:07 PM »

Well, If you paint the Torino's booms, nose and rudders international orange, I think you could find it in the sky O.K. I don't think Gray or Sky Blue would be good colors. Actually would be stealth with Gray or Sky Blue.

Jim Pollock

John Miller · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2009, 03:52:57 PM »

Mine, with the dark blue metalflake, looked like a black sliver out at the ends of the lines. Actually showed up pretty good. I wish I hadn't rushed the control system. That's what caused the flap flutter and why i wound up flying my All American Eagle at this years VSC.

I'll have it fixed and ready for next year though.

Bill Little · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2009, 03:50:24 PM »

Quote from: John Miller on July 07, 2009, 03:52:57 PM

Mine, with the dark blue metalflake, looked like a black sliver out at the ends of the lines. Actually showed up pretty good. I wish I hadn't rushed the control system. That's what caused the flap flutter and why i wound up flying my All American Eagle at this years Nat's.

I'll have it fixed and ready for next year though.

How 'bouts a picture of the finished Torino, John?

Thanks,
Bill <><

John Miller · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2009, 07:15:52 PM »

Here ya go Bill

Complete with matching handle.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:17:18 PM »

Neat looking plane John, give 'em 'L

next year at VSC!

Jim Pollock

Bill Little · « **Reply #22 on:** September 25, 2009, 08:25:02 AM »

Hi john,

That is an awesome looking model! (but I think you been seeing too many of Randy Powell's paint schemes!

)

No, really, it looks gorgeous.

Mongo

Mike Keville · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2009, 05:27:02 PM »

Even in its earlier state, John's "Torino" was easily one of the best appearing models at VSC-21. With updates, it's gonna' be spectacular, and quite possibly a serious contender for the "Jack Sheeks" awards. Get yourself to Tucson next March (16-20) for VSC-22 and see it!

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2009, 02:05:46 PM »

Has anyone seen a Moses Quintana Thor at VSC. If not that's really a shame because it is a great flying plane.
The only one I have seen is at the '98 KOI flown by a gentleman from the Miami area.

Jim Pollock

John Miller · « **Reply #25 on:** September 27, 2009, 02:26:32 PM »

I have a set of plans for the Thor. It's a great looking design, way ahead of it's time. I seem to remember seeing one at one of the VSC's.

Bill Little · « **Reply #26 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:16:10 AM »

The Thor plans and article are available on ebay.Canada all the time. Either in printed or CD version so that you can print them. I don't have them, but have been tempted to get them mnay times!

Mongo

Bill Little · « **Reply #27 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:20:58 AM »

Quote from: Mike Keville on September 26, 2009, 05:27:02 PM

Even in its earlier state, John's "Torino" was easily one of the best appearing models at VSC-21. With updates, it's gonna' be spectacular, and quite possibly a serious contender for the "Jack Sheeks" awards. Get yourself to Tucson next March (16-20) for VSC-22 and see it!

Hi Mike,

I really wish there was some way I can get to spend a week out in Tuscon for VSC..............

"Coach"

Darkstar1 · « **Reply #28 on:** September 29, 2009, 06:49:20 PM »

Hi All,
Yes there was A Thor at VSC and this is it. This is me with it at my apartment shortly after I finished it
and the other pics are just a few shots at VSC 10.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #29 on:** September 30, 2009, 02:17:44 PM »

That's a beautiful example of the Thor Darrell!

I see you have in it Blue Angles lead trim. That's always a good one.
I hope to see you at VSC with it whenever I can get there??? So far
no go on that. Oh well, maybe someday........

Jim Pollock, Wake up Jim your dreaming again....sheesh!

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #30 on:** September 30, 2009, 06:10:15 PM »

Darrell,
Great to see you are on the forum. The "Thor" looks great,. Moses will be proud of you.

Bill Little · « **Reply #31 on:** September 30, 2009, 09:29:13 PM »

Hi Darrell,

It's great to see you here! Your version of the Thor is very sweet!

Big Bear

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #32 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:42:30 PM »

I recall hearing about a plane called the Conquistador, by a fellow in the Philadelphia area.

I believe his name was Thornton.

Ring any bells?

Bob Z.

Trostle · « **Reply #33 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:20:50 AM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on October 22, 2009, 07:42:30 PM

I recall hearing about a plane called the Conquistador, by a fellow in the Philadelphia area.

I believe his name was Thornton.

Ring any bells?

Bob Z.

There was a Conquistador in the August 1958 issue of Model Airplane News by Thornton Hoffman. A very attractive design with eliptical wing and tail, inverted engine with a P-40 type nose, bubble canopy, fuselage gear.

Keith

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #34 on:** October 23, 2009, 11:29:58 AM »

Ty posted a pix of his Conquistador - in this thread

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=14262.msg128893#msg128893

Didn't Claire Sieverling also have a Conquistador preceeding(?) the Phoenician? I think it was a tapered wing, angular shapes, nothing like the Hoffman design...

Roger Vizioli · « **Reply #35 on:** October 23, 2009, 09:21:52 PM »

Quote from: darkstar1 on September 29, 2009, 06:49:20 PM

Hi All,
Yes there was A Thor at VSC and this is it. This is me with it at my apartment shortly after I finished it
and the other pics are just a few shots at VSC 10.

Darrel,
Is this the plane you flew at a KOI in late 90's, early 2000's?
Sure looked great!
Roger Vizioli

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #36 on:** November 10, 2009, 11:47:16 AM »

Stealth Stunter.

W.

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #37 on:** December 16, 2009, 01:05:46 PM »

I'll jump in here again and put forward another airplane that certainly has the pedigree to win the Nats.

TA DA! that would be Bob Palmer's Skyscraper!

Jim Pollock

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #38 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:53:17 PM »

Gee,

I guess no one cares anymore? Oh well, I tried to bring this thread back to life..........

Jim Pollock

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #39 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:26:57 PM »

Hi Ty,

I guess we could get Billy, David, Orestez and Derek to fly them all.......he, he, naw ---

Jim Pollock

Dwayne · « **Reply #40 on:** December 25, 2009, 05:36:12 AM »

Quote from: Serge_Krauss on April 28, 2009, 07:43:24 AM

Perhaps Mario Rondinelli's "Venus", which he said lost by fewer points than he lost in appearance points, due to a field repair?

SK

56" and 620 sq" with a Fox .35? WOW!

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #41 on:** December 25, 2009, 09:00:25 PM »

Marvin Denny flew a Novi III with a Fox .35....Of course his Foxes are not run of the mill. You can make a plain old Fox .35 pull a lot of plane by tipping the nitro jug and getting your fuel up to 20-25%

Jim Pollock

Bill Little · « **Reply #42 on:** January 03, 2010, 12:25:04 AM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on December 25, 2009, 09:00:25 PM

Marvin Denny flew a Novi III with a Fox .35....Of course his Foxes are not run of the mill. You can make a plain old Fox .35 pull a lot of plane by tipping the nitro jug and getting your fuel up to 20-25%

Jim Pollock

It is amazing just how big the old *Fox 35 size* airplanes finally got to be. Mario's Venus had to be one of the bigger/heavier models to have done so well at the top level using a Fox 35.

But like The Man said, "the biggest improvement has come in power". I am sure that those of us old enough can remember the joys of trying to *stunt* in the wind with a Fox 35 and a "too big" airplane.

I do think the old Fox .35 (breathed on) can do decent with the Argus at 37 oz. It's not too big a model. And a pretty stock one flew Aaron's Fancy Pants real good, even in the wind (another smallish model). Maybe the best idea for the Fox 35 is the fella that put one inthe Lil' T-Bird. A model designed around a plain bearing Veco 19! Of course, a top notch pilot who is familiar with the Fox 35 (ie: Marvin "Big Iron" Denny) can produce great results regardless, but it takes some know how and finesse.

BTW: did anyone mention the Cobra? Steve did pretty darn good with it, and it never won...... Paul's VSC win says a lot for the plane (and of course Paul

).

Oh yeah, I agree with the Skyscraper, it's one I will have to build. And I will even use the dihedral as the plans show!

Big Bear

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #43 on:** January 03, 2010, 06:24:20 PM »

Bill,

I wasn't aware that the Skyscraper plans had any dihedral thrown in. Of course I sure did like Todd's P51-B (Magnum) with the dihedral. All of Al's semi scale planes look very scale like with their dihedral as well.

Jim Pollock

John Sunderland · « **Reply #44 on:** January 03, 2010, 11:22:52 PM »

Quote from: Jim Pollock on December 18, 2009, 02:53:17 PM

Gee,

I guess no one cares anymore? Oh well, I tried to bring this thread back to life..........

Jim Pollock

Just saw this Jim.... we have a set of plans for the Skyscraper. It is cool...and flapless

Jim Pollock · « **Reply #45 on:** January 11, 2010, 05:31:40 PM »

John,

The classic bibliography doesn't show the Palmer Skyscraper as being flapless. Maybe you have a different Skyscraper plan?

Jim Pollock

John Sunderland · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2010, 08:10:38 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on January 12, 2010, 08:48:01 AM

I have full size plans, it has flaps.
There is of course, a free flgiht plane with the same name and no flaps
[/quote

Whoops! Some how had the Skyscraper in word and the Grey Ghost in mind...no correlation...is this a sign of old age or just insanity?

John Sunderland · « **Reply #47 on:** January 27, 2010, 09:37:45 PM »

Crap!

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #48 on:** January 28, 2010, 08:13:29 AM »

Twister.

When will a jr. Flite Streak have its day.

Author Topic: Best Plane to not have won a Nats? (Read 6245 times)

Dwayne