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Author Topic: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?  (Read 2333 times)

Offline Matt Colan

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Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« on: April 30, 2009, 07:27:31 PM »
Jim's thread got me thinking.  Which was the best pilot to not have won the Nats instead of the plane.  Gene Schaffer would probably be on the top my list along with Windy.  H^^
Matt Colan

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 07:40:40 AM »
Here's my list:

1. Gene Schaeffer (No contest here in my mind; he took second four times!)

2. Jim Kostecky

3. Gerry Phelps (In his prime)

4. Roland McDonald (He took second two or three times)

5. Bill Rich (Second in 1995)

6. Frank McMillan (He took a close second several years ago)

7. Mario Rondinelli (Second in 1964 with a field repaired plane!)

8. Dick Williams

9. Bill Simons (My sentimental pick)

I'm sure there are many others worthy of a list like this, and I'm sure we'll see other picks from different posters.

Bob Hunt

Offline Trostle

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 08:42:38 AM »
This question has come up before on another forum.  People who have been around for a while will have their favorites and probably most of these "favorates" show up on Bob Hunt's list above.  Gene Schaffer certainly deserves at or near the top of any such list.

For the record, in addition to Bob's list above, here are some others who have finished second in the Open event at the Nats but never won:

Robert Haren  ('59)
Thorton Hoffman  ('53)
Charles Lickliter ('61)
Dick Mathis ('67)*
Charles Reeves ('66)
Gerald Wagner ('57)
Malcolm Windham ('56)
J.C. Yates ('47, '48)

Notes: 

Some familiar names and some not-so-familiar names.  Interesting.

* Dick Mathis  had high flight points in '64 but finished 4th with appearance points.  His moodel was covered and trimmed with Jap tissue, all clear dope.  I thought the airplane looked really good, but he took a beating on the appearance points.

A Senior (Dennis Adamisin) won the Walker Cup in 72 because appearance points are not included in the flyoff score.  I do not know if there are other instances when the Walker Cup was won or lost because appearance points are not used in the flyoff score.



Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 05:48:23 PM »
Ummmm,

Wasn't Clair Sieverling second sometime around '60-61 with the Phoenician?

Not too sure, just thought I saw that somewhere....

Jim Pollock   ???

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 08:31:13 PM »
Also,

Hasn't Ted be second more that a time or two?

Jim Pollock   VD~

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 10:34:34 PM »

5. Bill Rich (Second in 1995)

    I wasn't around for most of the guys on your list but Bill is an awfully good example. He has flown well enough to win lots of times, just not the 3 times in a row he needed. He's not done.  His flying buddy, Randy Smith, is another good possibility.

    And I know this is about people who have competed for years and come close but not quite, and he doesn't quite qualify on this score, but as far as guys with the skills to win who haven't, JCT member Howard Rush has given David, Ted, and I all we could handle on a number of occasions. Because of Howard, I went home empty-handed from a local contest - while I was the reigning national champion. .

     Brett

Offline Trostle

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2009, 01:21:47 AM »
Also,

Hasn't Ted be second more that a time or two?

Jim Pollock   VD~

Yes, Ted Fancher has placed second several times, ('78, '81, '92, '93, '97, '02, '03) but he has won several times also, ('82, '86, '95, '00,) so he does not qualify for this list of "best pilots to not have won the Nats".  Ted has been in the top five at the Nats at least 25 times.   And he has placed at the World Championships (4th in 82, 5th in 94)REMARKABLE!!!!!

Offline Trostle

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2009, 01:24:46 AM »
Ummmm,

Wasn't Clair Sieverling second sometime around '60-61 with the Phoenician?

Not too sure, just thought I saw that somewhere....

Jim Pollock   ???

Claire Sieverling placed 5th in '60 and 4th in '63.

Keith

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2009, 10:56:53 AM »
Yes, Ted Fancher has placed second several times, ('78, '81, '92, '93, '97, '02, '03) but he has won several times also, ('82, '86, '95, '00,) so he does not qualify for this list of "best pilots to not have won the Nats".  Ted has been in the top five at the Nats at least 25 times.   And he has placed at the World Championships (4th in 82, 5th in 94)REMARKABLE!!!!!

    And '06. Point being, Shareen's rampant cheating was not too effective.

     Brett

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2009, 01:28:24 PM »
Yes, Ted Fancher has placed second several times, ('78, '81, '92, '93, '97, '02, '03) but he has won several times also, ('82, '86, '95, '00,) so he does not qualify for this list of "best pilots to not have won the Nats".  Ted has been in the top five at the Nats at least 25 times.   And he has placed at the World Championships (4th in 82, 5th in 94)REMARKABLE!!!!!

Where did Ted place at the 2004 World Championships?

Matt Colan

Offline Trostle

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2009, 03:30:49 PM »
Where did Ted place at the 2004 World Championships?



Ted was 10th at the '04 World Championships.  My omission on his list of accomplishments above was a real mistake on my part.

Keith

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 05:35:42 PM »
At least Bob Baron made it before he left us.  How many people have tried and never even made top twenty, let alone the top ten.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2009, 06:11:18 PM »
At least Bob Baron made it before he left us.  How many people have tried and never even made top twenty, let alone the top ten.  DOC Holliday

I have the 96 Nats videos from Windy and during the awards, Bob Baron said his mother would not die until he won the walker cup.

Matt Colan

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 08:41:40 PM »
Nor would he!

Jim Pollock   :'(

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 08:46:49 AM »
Oh yeah!

I just remembered my sentimental favorite!  Would've won I think but had an overrun?  TOM WARDEN!

Jim Pollock  H^^

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2009, 05:07:08 PM »
5. Bill Rich (Second in 1995)


I think Bill was second a few times, I remember a few years back he lost to Paul Walker , and had a higher flight scores, but lost to him only by appearance points difference


Randy

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2009, 09:15:22 PM »
Hi Randy,

I think that has happened several times over the years. Fortunately, no appearance points in the Walker fly off.  Just you flying skill!

Jim Pollock  H^^

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2009, 12:17:47 PM »
Hi Randy,

I think that has happened several times over the years. Fortunately, no appearance points in the Walker fly off.  Just you flying skill!

Jim Pollock  H^^

Yep however Walker flyoff is only for the jr. sr. open,  I was talking about the top 5 flyoff

Randy

Offline Jim Pollock

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Re: Best Pilot to not have won the Nats?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2009, 02:03:19 PM »
Yeah Randy,

Top 5 is a really tough fly off.  1-2 appearance points can make a huge difference in 2 flights.

Jim Pollock   HB~> 


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