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Author Topic: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks  (Read 939 times)

Offline Larrys4227

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Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« on: November 22, 2010, 12:58:39 PM »
Ok, the subject probably got your attention  ... :-)

Howdy folks! Been thinking a long time about carrier, or more simply, a throttle controlled C/L plane.  I just received a free Torpedo 35  (no idea if it runs, but was told it did when it was put away), and was going to mount it in a beatup Flite Streak I have.  Been reading the last couple of days and some confusion for me is in the bellcrank setup.  Been looking at the C-series upright/inverted 3-line bellcranks and I cant tell if the throttle portion is spring loaded or not? Looking at different airplanes and their setups here on the forum, I cant spot any springs for tension on the throttle pushrod either.  So .... theres the question .....  how is the throttle control tensioned?  Maybe its not?  I've done alot of 'model airplane' over the years, but carrier setups I'm completely green

I'm looking to keep this entire lil' project simplified, so arrestors and sliders and the like are beyond what I'm initially trying to accomplish.  Although I know quite a few people here in FL that fly stunt, I dont believe I've met anyone that flys carrier .... no one to ask locally .... so you guys get my newbie-ness questions. :-)

Thanks a bunch in advance  ....   :-)

Ok, you thought I was done .... one more. If I decide to mount the bellcrank on the bottom of the wing, is that the 'inverted' bellcrank I need?

Now I'm done .... !!!  Later, Larry

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 03:47:36 PM »
There are no springs involved with the 3-line throttle control system. Correctly set-up, the mechanism provides for positive control over the full range of throttle travel.

The inverted bellcrank unit is probably best for an underwing mount.
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Offline Larrys4227

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 04:25:53 PM »
Thanks Bob. Its one of those things I have to see to understand how it works, then.  I'll start playing and figure it out ... :-)

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 05:16:25 PM »
When you're looking at it, consider that the thing is set up so that the tension on all three lines must be equal, meaning that if you hold the elevator at neutral and pull the throttle cable one inch out of the plane, the 'up' and 'down' cables will draw in by 1/2 inch each.

So the force for the throttle actuation comes from line tension, just as the force for elevator actuation does.
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Offline bfrog

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 06:23:47 PM »
Larry

There is a wealth of experience on this forum. Don't be afraid to ask questions. When I started flying carrier I got a lot of help from the people on the web.

If you would like some pictures of some of the setup let me know on this thread and I can post some examples that might help you out.

Give carrier a try, it's fun and a challenge.
Bob Frogner

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 09:08:48 PM »
"Upright" or "Inverted" means will it sit on top of the bellcrank platform(upright), or hang beneath the bellcrank platform (inverted). Besides that, there choices about the elevator bellcrank part of the system. You can get a 2 1/2" span bellcrank, or a 3 1/2" span bellcrank. You may also choose whether the up line is the front leadout or the rear leadout.

There are no springs used in a typical 3 line system. The tension of the throttle line opposes the tension of the elevation lines.  When you pull the throttle leadout, the up and down lines "retract" into the wing by the same amount you pulled out the throttle line. Properly set up, you can release the trigger on the handle and the throttle stays put.

Several caveats: The bellcrank and handle work as a system. There are some home made systems out there, and it is possible to mix and match parts, but do yourself a favor and get the things that are meant to work together. Second, there is no provision for line length adjustment on the handle, and getting the throttle line just the right length is paramount, so you may have to fine tune things with different size line connectors. Third, expect to do some fiddling to make everything work, so it's better if the control system is all external.

I would consider a different airplane, in all honesty. My first 3 line trainer was a slab wing model, similar to the Streak Trainer. The fun part of flying this type of airplane is touch and go's, so you want a robust airplane with stout landing gear. A higher wing loading is a good thing for this! You also want enough room for an RC clunk tank, or at least a tank with the pickup at the bottom rather than on the centerline. Adjustable leadouts would also be helpful. I think everyone in the club flew mine, and it finally died when the threads on the elevator pushrod wore out after hundreds of flights.

Once you are successful, you will be able to adapt just about any model to throttle control. Go ahead, pull the trigger.....

Offline Larrys4227

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 05:10:13 AM »
Thanks for the responses .... last night I found a C/L site in the UK, and they had a pretty good rendering of a 3-line bellcrank, and how it worked. I didnt realize the elevator crank moved around.  The photos of Brodak's C-series seemed to be in a 'collapsed' state ... which made it confusing.

I will end up buying a c-series crank and handle from brodak, and best mounting will be under the wing.  I'll have to build alittle platform for the crank, and I can already see that it will easily clear the fuse.  The fuse is solid 1/2" balsa with 1/16 sheeting on both sides, full length.  The fuse has also been stretched 3" .... 2 in the tail and 1 in the nose.  I can fit up to a 4oz clunk tank, and the motor mount is way overbuilt.  Its a heavyish plane and unsightly to look at, but it flies great with a McCoy 35 and I was using it for people that wanted to try C/L.  The landing gear is also very stout. I've got some adjustable leadout assemblys from old planes and will mount one further back to the TE.

This FS may not be the proper plane to use, but of all the planes I have, its certainly the one to hack into and make uglier than it is ..... but I know it will take alot of abuse, and I wont feel bad when I crunch it up. :-)

First thing first tho .... gotta get this motor on a test stand and see if theres any life left!!

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 01:56:08 PM »
I recently noticed that Brodak has a DVD about 3 line bellcranks,for $20.00. I have not seen it but it might be worth it if you are starting from ground zero!   Mike
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Offline Bill Heher

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 09:24:18 PM »
here is a scanned diagram from a 50 yr old J.Roberts system, the current Brodak one is very similar.



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Offline Larrys4227

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Re: Warning - Newbie-ness alert on bellcranks
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 06:57:38 AM »
Thanks Bill!  Very similar to what I've found ... but more descriptive.  I'll save this one ... :-)


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