Below are the 2008 official rules for the Sig Skyray 35 Carrier event, straight from Mike Gretz. Sig has control of the rules for this event and keeps the "official" version of the unofficial event rules. (I hope that makes sense!) So these rules will be the ones used at the Sig contest and for the unofficial event at the Nats, and Treetown will certainly use them. I would suggest every contest director who will be having Skyray Carrier this year use them as well.
These rules are not really a change from last years but do represent a clarificatoin of some issues. Particularly, how much can you fudge the Skyray and still qualify? Can you enlarge the tail, for example? We've had disagreements in the past, but here it is spelled out that you can enlarge the elevator chord if you wish, but otherwise the tail has to have the same outline as on a stock Skyray.
Pete


NAVY CARRIER SKYRAY 35 (JSO)
1) SIG Skyray 35 kits only. Although construction details may be modified, wing and empennage airfoils and outlines of fuselage and flight surfaces shall be stock within normal building tolerances - with modifications as follows:
   a. No additional movable flight control surfaces are allowed other than elevator. The elevator chord may be increased from stock.
   b. Two wheel landing gear is allowed, and the tail skid may be modified. Motor mounts (and fuselage front end) may be modified in a reasonable way to accommodate the motors being used, but not for additional streamlining.
   c. Either a standard 3-line control system (elevator and throttle) or a 2-line control system (elevator, with throttle controlled by an electrical signal passing through the lines) may be used. Design and location of control system components is open.
   d. Repositioning the leadouts to a location on the wing tip other than where shown on the plan is allowed as long as the leadouts emerge from the wing tip within the fore-aft limits of the wing.  Line sliders are NOT allowed.  Stock wing tips may be left off - no further shortening of the wing is allowed.
   e. Addition of arresting hook is allowed.
2) Propulsion system may be either piston engine (glow) or electric motor.  Maximum displacement for piston engine is .409 cubic inch (muffler optional).
3) Fuel Tank: Suction only, no pressurized systems.
4) Fuel: SIG Champion 10% (supplied at contest).
5) The scoring of the event shall be per the AMA rule book for Profile Carrier with the following exceptions:
   a. No scale bonus points will be awarded, however the model should look like a SIG Skyray 35
   b. Maximum high speed score will be limited to 75 mph
6) All other rules are the same as for AMA Profile Carrier event, plus NCS Electric Profile Carrier Event rules for electric motor powered entries.

Just one question

per part

D teh leadouts must exit stock locations, does that mean you can't run them above or below the wing and use external controls? Or is this just fore and aft position? 

Dave

I tend to agree with Mike, although I am not an expert on Skyray rules. It just makes sense (although rules don't always make sense!!!).

I built my first Guardian for carrier with internal controls and it was a pain to deal with. I really favor making them external so you can adjust them more easily.

Bob

The meaning of that rule indeed is to allow the leadouts to be above or below the wing. The wording is there to prevent someone from putting the leadout guide half way in to the fuselage where it would allow the leadouts to pass the wingtip six inches behind it when the airplane yaws out in low speed flight. So the wording carefully says the leadout guide may be repositioned on the wing tip, and specifically does not say it must be in the wing tip. So put your leadout guide out at the tip (or the last rib) anywhere between the fore-aft limits of the wing, either above, below, or in the tip and you will be OK.
Pete

I bet I know how Bill C. feels about external controls after seeing his new ESkyRay at TreeTown last night!

Now when do we get the rest of the story as Paul Harvey used to say?  I asked Melvin Schuette about the enlarged elevators on his Sky Ray 35 and was told it was legal.  I have started cutting on mine.  Hope it doesn't have to be a kit with the prices they are getting for them.  Later,  DOC Holliday

It looks like Polk City may be out this year.  As far as the "SkyRay" for carrier I may be lucky to have it ready for Topeka.  DOC Holliday

     Mike, thats a nice looking Skyray. I like you colors, trim, and decals. Unlike you I have had a lot of trouble with moving the CG back far enough to get a good controlable LS. When I got the CG back to the front of the spar I found my HS stability to be marginal and could go no further. I think it something to do with just my plane. I remember a while back that Brett Buck stated that for stunt the CG should be behind the spar for best results.
     As you say if the air is still I can do about anything with my plane but if there is a little breeze (contest) I cannot keep the nose up more than around 40 degrees in the down wind portion of the flight. Up wind it is OK, so it requires changing control inputs constantly. I think by adding 3/4" to the width of the elevator I will have more control during the LS portion of the event and may even gain more control in the HS portion of the event.
     In the pictures of your plane  I see the battery is out of the wing a little bit. Is that its flying position? If that is the flying position it would seem that you would have a tail heavy problem? Could you comment on this. Again its a nice looking plane and I wish now that I had stuck to a carrier theme with the finish on mine. eric

Thanks for the compliments - this is the 2nd one (after my mid-air explosion at Sig last year) in pretty much the same color scheme - to tell the truth, I just didn't feel like another blue airplane.

As for the CG - this one has a tail-weight "box" in it but right now it's empty.  The actual CG is kind of fluid anyway on this one, as I intend to try the AXI on it but that is two ounces lighter than the Scorpion that is on it in the pix, and I'm just afraid it will be too tail heavy with the AXI.  The first one (last year) was very similar to this one, but I had to add weight to the tail (quite a bit of weight, actually) until it just started to hunt at high speed.  Then it too flew very well in the calm.  I didn't really get to fly it much before the fatal flight, and this current plane was flown once last fall and then put away until yesterday.  I also have a tip weight box, and much of the ability to fly slow is getting the right amount of tip weight, as I'm sure you are aware.  And mine is the opposite of yours, as to where I have to work at keeping the nose up - mine balloons a bit going upwind and then as I go around cross-wind (on the upwind side) the nose drops or tends to drop - goosing the throttle a bit seems to help pull it back up again.  Yesterday, I was playing with "pusher" props, and that may have had an effect that made it possible to keep from having the upwind portion blow in on me.  If so, I hope I can find one that doesn't cost too much high speed.  I've only been able to get a couple of APC sport 11-7 and 10-8 and Zinger 11-8 and 10-7 woods.  I'm guessing that best high speed and acceptable low speed will come from something like the APC 11-10e or 10-10e, neither of which is available as a pusher.  My biggest issue is just rusty pilot syndrome, anyway.  Flying it more - even if flying it badly - is more important that anything else right now.

Ahh - the batteries.  The picture shows it with a 5-cell A123 pack.  I've also got a 4-cell A123 to try and some 4-cell Lipo's (but only 2200 mah).  The final battery choice is, like everything else on this plane, not yet made.  I'm leaning toward the 5-cell A123, IF I can get a complete flight from a 5s1p.
If I have to go to Lipos to get the flight time, it will probably be a 4-cell ~3000mah, but I'm betting that would cost some high speed.  At any rate, the 5-cell is a "hump-pack", at present and with that in the wing and no added tip weight, the plane seems to fly very well (A123's are about 70 grams per cell, so a 5 cell pack comes in at about 13 1/2 oz.).  The 5th cell sticks out of the hole at  present.  If I decide to stick with this, I'll flatten the pack out and open up the hatch cover another rib bay.  Unless I decide I don't care about the hump pack sticking out of the wing - in that case I won't change anything, and let it stick out.   

I did get lucky - for one of the few times in my life - and won a kit in this boards monthly drawing last month.  As luck would have it, the kit for that month was the Brodak (Calkins) Guardian.  I've looked at the plans and note that the ribs are VERY thick - just the place to hide a lot of LiPos.  So, maybe I'll have a different plane for the Axi before the end of the year.

Mike

Mike,

Your comment about the Guardian:

As luck would have it, the kit for that month was the Brodak (Calkins) Guardian.  I've looked at the plans and note that the ribs are VERY thick - just the place to hide a lot of LiPos.

Yes, they are very thick. In fact I think if I built another I would slim them down about 30% at least. I think the thicker section helps the low speed but it also really hurts the high speed and the Guardian needs more speed. If you do build the Guardian be sure and get Bill Calkins modifications before you start.

I think the Guardian would be a good electric carrier plane because the nose is nice and big for mounting an e-motor, plus room in the wing for electric parts. I would also suggest external controls too.

   When I got the CG back to the front of the spar I found my HS stability to be marginal and could go no further. I think it something to do with just my plane. I remember a while back that Brett Buck stated that for stunt the CG should be behind the spar for best results.

 ........ eric

I was just re-reading a few posts and remembered that I had meant to comment on this part of your post, Eric...

I measured my CG as flown yesterday (with 4 A123 cell pack) - and it is just behind the front of the spar.  My estimation is that whatever pack I fly, it is somewhere on the spar, and I think I could stand it maybe slightly behind the spar before high-speed squirreliness (??) is uncomfortable.  I wonder if you may have some incidence in the stab which would cause stability issues as your CG approaches the spar?  I really can't think of any other reason - for all its less than stellar points, the Skyray is usually pretty forgiving of CG.  I may add some of the tail weight that I have for this plane, because in thinking about yesterday's flights, I realized that I was having to hold quite a bit of up elevator for the upwind-to-downwind half of the circle (and then zero elevator for the rest of the circle).  I will at least try a little tail weight and see if I can get further around with almost neutral.

Also, Brett was referring to the Skyray in particular or any airplane ??  If he was referring to the Skyray, then I would say that it is possible that some would like the CG that far back - I can coax a recognizable stunt pattern out of a Skyray with the CG ~1/2" in front of the spar  (but why bother?    ).

Other airplanes will need the CG where they need it and the spar location has almost nothing to do with that.  If it turns out to be on the spar (or not on the spar), that is mere coincidence.

M@