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Author Topic: Profile Nostalgia Carrier  (Read 2679 times)

Offline Les Akre

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Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« on: December 08, 2006, 07:42:55 PM »
Hello All

I've never flown carrier before, but couldn't resist buying one ready to fly. It was built by one of our club members lo these many years ago.

It looks like it will fit the profile nostalgia event. I will give you the particulars.

Sterling Bearcat, fixed leadouts, silkspan and dope finish, Super Tigre 35 plain bearing engine.

The airplane is almost new and can't have more than 6 or 8 flights on it.

Let me know if there are any other aspects of the rules that my airplane might need to fit.
I could also use some tips on setting up the airplane properly, as I don't know if it was ever properly trimmed out for competition.






best regards, Les Akre

Offline Gordon Tarbell

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2006, 11:46:24 AM »
That one looks more like a Hellcat .
Gordon Tarbell AMA 15019

Offline Les Akre

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2006, 03:50:47 AM »
Hi Gordon

OOPS! You are correct, it is a Hellcat.

Les

Offline Randy Bush

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2006, 06:09:41 PM »
Let me know if there are any other aspects of the rules that my airplane might need to fit.
I could also use some tips on setting up the airplane properly, as I don't know if it was ever properly trimmed out for competition.

best regards, Les Akre

Hi Les,

I find we're on a similar path here.  I recently started converting a 2-line Brodak Skyraider to 3-line for Nostalgia Profile.  My only carrier flying experience is with a modified (clipped wing) Sterling Hellcat with a slider.  From watching others trim their non-slider ships, I'd guess that tip weight is your friend and tail weight is your friend until it bites you.  Best to allow for easy adjustment to both.  My slider Hellcat has a kick-out rudder that helps it.

Regarding rules, I have a set of "Nostalgia CL Carrier Rules 1-1-1999" from Dick Perry.  I don't know if everyone uses the same rules among National Carrier Society, Northwest CL, and your area.  I need to find out if I want to fly at NW Regionals.

Let me know if you need a copy of the rules I have.

Randy

Offline bfrog

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2006, 07:29:01 PM »
Randy,

The rules you have from Dick Perry are probably current for NCS. There may be other rules in different parts of the country. I'll check in with Dick and see what he says. He likes to promote nostalgia so I would think he has a good line on things.

Bob
Bob Frogner

Offline Randy Bush

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2006, 09:12:36 PM »
Hi Bob,

I've been talking with Dick to the point where now I think I understand the NCS rules. 
Maybe in Canada, Les' home, local rules require skiis....I Dunno?

Randy

Offline Les Akre

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 02:06:55 PM »
Hi Randy

No, they don't require ski's here...but we sure could use them right about now. About 14" of snow on the ground now!

Thanks for the set up tips.

Here are the rules for Nostalgia Profile Carrier as they run it at the Regionals. I would imagine they are similar?? to those used elseware.

NOSTALGIA NAVY CARRIER RULES

3.1. Engine Specifications: Engine and fuel system specifications shall be as listed in the current AMA regulations for each event.

3.2. Moveable Leadouts: Vertical or horizontal position of the leadouts relative to the model may not change in flight.

3.3. Electronic Control Systems: Electronic control systems are not permitted

4. Builder of the Model: The builder of the model rule does not apply to Nostalgia Navy Carrier.

5. Historic Model Bonus: A bonus of 20 points will be awarded for models which were published or manufactured prior to January 1, 1978. The Contest Director may require proof of eligibility, which shall be the responsibility of the contestant. Proof may consist of dated published plans, magazine construction articles, or advertisements. To qualify for this bonus, models must comply with the following requirements:

5.1. Modifications: No modifications to the original design are permitted, except as listed below. Any modifications other than those listed in section 5.2 which, in the opinion of the event director, significantly change the appearance or performance of the model as it was originally designed, shall not be permitted. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, changes in airfoil, changes in dimensions, and use of moveable control surfaces not included on the original design.

5.2. Allowable Modifications:

5.2.1. Landing gear may be changed in length or material, but must exit the model at the original position. A tail wheel may be substituted for a skid and vice versa. Wheels may be of any diameter.

5.2.2. Leadout position may be changed from that shown on the plan. Ground-adjustable leadouts are permitted.

5.2.3. Control travel, control mechanism location, and control mechanism may be changed.

5.2.4. Tip weight may be changed or may be adjustable.

5.2.5. Tail hook and its location may be changed.

5.2.6. Structural changes to strengthen the aircraft are permitted.

5.2.7. Building and finishing material substitutions are permitted.

5.2.8. Location of access hatches may be changed.

5.2.9. Engine mountings may be changed, and engines of different displacement may be used.

6. Non-Schnuerle Engine Bonus: Non-schnuerle engines will receive a bonus of 20 points.

7. Carrier Deck: A carrier deck corresponding to current AMA regulations will be used.

8. Records: Records will not be established for Nostalgia Navy Carrier.

9. Combination of Classes: Class I and Class II may be combined for Nostalgia Navy Carrier. If classes are combined, Class I models willreceive a five percent bonus on total score (multiply Class I total score by 1.05). Profile Class will not be combined with Class I and Class II in Nostalgia Navy Carrier.

Make plans for 2007 Cabin Fever, hint, hint.

Regards, les
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 04:09:21 PM by Les Akre »

Offline Randy Bush

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2006, 10:17:57 PM »
Yup, those are the same "model requirements".  Do you also have the section 2 which says "1974-75 AMA Regulations ...shall govern this event"?  Those make the scoring different from current AMA,ie:
·         No scale points are possible in Profile.  Possible 100 points in I and II.

·         Low points = 3x(hi speed minus low speed) [in mph]

·         Hi speed and landing are same as current AMA.

·         Add bonuses earned for Historic Model and/or for Non-schnuerle Engine.

Seeya when it thaws.
Randy

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 03:49:53 AM »
To make it true "Nostalgia" Carrier in Profile, you need to add,

.36 Plain-bearing stock engine.

The ball-bearing, left-hand, destroked racing 40's are what improved carrier to what it is today, 3 entries vs the 30 of the Golden Age.
Paul Smith

Offline bfrog

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 11:58:54 PM »
I hate to be the one to break the news to you but it wasn't engines that changed the turnout at CL contests. Look at the  entries at Nats and CL is down to RC for many years. It just didn't coincide with different motors in carrier.  Be realistic!!!!!
Bob Frogner

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2006, 04:55:37 AM »
I hate to be the one to break the news to you but it wasn't engines that changed the turnout at CL contests. Look at the  entries at Nats and CL is down to RC for many years. It just didn't coincide with different motors in carrier.  Be realistic!!!!!


I'm not writing about the general decline of Control Line, just Profile Carrier.

In the "nostalgia days", in Michigan, you couldn't even get in all three attempts in day, because there were so many entries.  That was when we flew Profile with K&B Greenheads, MAX III's, ST CRC's, and other off-the-shelf engines.

Changing to a machinists-only event instantly dropped the entry level to 2 or 3 diehards.    Profile was created as an entry point, not just another chance for the same people to win.   Class II is a great unlimiited event.  Impressive to watch.  Guys who want to put $2,000 into an engine are welcome to it. 

But if there's going to be Profile Carrier, Sportsman Profile Carrier, and Nostalgia Profile Carrier, at least leave one of 'em available for people who just want to buy a regular engine.
Paul Smith

Offline bfrog

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2006, 09:05:28 AM »
OK, let's take a look at recent history.

In Sportsman I used a stock Webra 35, about $120, and was able to do pretty well. 24 second high speed and over 3 min lows with a Brodak kit Guardian. I hadn't flown control line in 30 years when I started flying again and after 6 months or so I was able to make it work pretty good. Randy Bush, here in California, uses a Thunder Tiger 36, about $75 new, and as scored into the 300 point range in his first year flying carrier. I now fly a used Nelson 36, totally stock (which you can get for maybe $200) with an OS carb on a Vampire (not and MO-1) and am getting 20 second highs and over 4 and 1/2 min low speed. None of these engines are super expensive and none have needed a machine shop to make them work. The airplanes are not exotic either. You don't need a super duper motor to have fun or do well.

As for Nostalgia, you get extra points for using an older engine

The point is you can fly any of those events and get good results without knowing what a lathe of mill is.

Build a plane and fly it. Take a stock Thunder Tiger 36 (I just got one for $35 at a swap meet) build a plane, trim, adjust and practice and you can do well.

As far as the number of entrants, we just had a contest here in Northern California, a "local" contest, and had at least 8 entrants in Profile alone. There was also good turnout in 15 Profile. The number of people flying control line has declined greatly since RC has become less expensive and younger people are going toward that not carrier, or racing, or combat or you name it in CL. The number of available flying fields for unmuffled control line is relatively small too. Things are not the same as they were 20 years ago and won't be again. The next challenge is to build an electric carrier model that can compete with glow motors. Its not that far off. Then there might be a chance to get more flying sites that will allow CL. That may help too but you have to get younger people involved to grow the numbers.

Its easy to lament about how there isn't the turn out there once was or that its gotten too expensive. The truth is the only way to change that is to build and fly. This is a hobby and the important thing is to have fun.
Bob Frogner

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Profile Nostalgia Carrier
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 06:05:01 PM »
I have been flying carrier off and on since the early 60's.  When it was Profile Carrier and Carrier I & II you either flew profile or scale, not both.  It is when they opened it up to let you fly all three is when it started to declined.  My observation.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.


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