In 15 carrier (glow) I run a Cox Conquest with a 7X6 prop. That seems to be the sweet spot for the Cox. I don't have any experience with a Norvel but the 7X6 would be a good starting point.

Thanks guys even if it isn't what I was hoping to hear. The Cox like the Norvel is out of production and from what I remember of cox prices on eBay think I'll probably pass. I really don't care for the idea of running an out of production engine unless it falls into my lap like the Norvel.

Noticed a few were running Magnum 15's at Brodaks, might be the way to go if the FP or Novel won't work out.

The Magnums seem to do pretty well, I have several and they all run fast. The top three would have had two Magnums at the fly-In if gary had not declined a trophy. The Novel was a good sport engine, I sold mine. The best in my view is still  the Conquest if you can find a good one.

One of the issues at Brodak's is fuel. we ask people to use 10% , it probably takes a bit of work to get any motor to run fast without the  high Nitro.

All that said, it is mostly the fliers that make the landings and have reliable airplanes the finish in the top tier. At Brodak's everyone would have been within 10 points of each other except for Tim LaNore and Paul Smith. They were the only two that really went very fast, and Paul was the fastest, but he didn't try to hang the plane. Tim used a Magnum by the way.

15 profile is supposed to be fun, don't get too serious.

John

Good point Bob, I have asked for, and have preliminary approval to run electrics combined with glow in Sportsman and 15 profile next year at the Fly-In. I have sent in the rules to be posted on the Brodak site, they are basically the same as those ratified by the NCS.  A copy of the rules is included

Good point Bob, I have asked for, and have preliminary approval to run electrics combined with glow in Sportsman and 15 profile next year at the Fly-In. I have sent in the rules to be posted on the Brodak site, they are basically the same as those ratified by the NCS.  A copy of the rules is included

Please make a posting as to whether or not this proposal in actually accepted.  Thank you for going public before we waste any more time on piston engine models for the 2011 Brodak.

This discussion is clearly off the original topic, but you announced your intention here and I'll continue the discussion here.

15 Profile Carrier is one the most popular Carrier events at The Brodak and often THE most popular carrier event at The Brodak. 

Real people have invested time and money in the event as it currently stands.  These people will be totally wiped out if electrics are mixed with 15's.  The "new people" you hope to attract are imaginary.  The current customers are REAL. 

A 15 piston engine, which can be measured by bore and stroke has no chance whatsoever against a totally unlimited and unmeasurable electric system that can dump huge current to the motor for 25 seconds, then go all the way down to zero RPM and back to peak with no chance of stalling.

If electric is so great, just add an electric event.

Mixing electric & piston at the AMA Nats is the reason I don't enter, even though it's 100 miles closer than Carmichaels. 

There aren't that many people flying carrier.  Don't be running us off in hopes of gaining some fantasy flyers.

Paul wrote:

A 15 piston engine, which can be measured by bore and stroke has no chance whatsoever against a totally unlimited and unmeasurable electric system that can dump huge current to the motor for 25 seconds, then go all the way down to zero RPM and back to peak with no chance of stalling.


Once again Paul you talk about unlimited electric power. THAT IS JUST NOT THE CASE. I don't know how many times you have to be reminded that there are limitations to the weight of the electric planes that effectively limit the power. Do some homework, understand the limitations of electrics, before you go making generalize and inaccurate statements. You are trying to make a point that has no basis in fact.

As far as low speed is concerned, going to zero and back up without stalling, there are still some of the same issues with electrics in modulating the power. It is little or no different than a glow motor. I have used both and know what I am talking about. Don't make statements when you don't understand the details.

If you can't get the nelson down to the rpm you need then why don't you try another engine, maybe? I  don't know the exact rpm other people are running but I know that mvvs magnum fox OS don't seem to have a problem going slow why not use them?

It doesn't matter if the electric plane can do 200mph it still only gets scored for 70. So just put an engine on a plane an maybe practice low speed and you could play with the big bad "unlimited" electrics.

If any Conquest 15's or MVVS 15's were available would anyone on this forum be interested in obtaining one and pay the going price.
Dennis

Some guys bought Norvells for Perky speed.  Did not work too good.  Big, heavy, and slow.

I need to get to a pretty low idle to get the nose up, or else it just does a wingover.  Then back to intermediate speed.

I had no trouble buying an MVVS from the same European suppliers that sell F2 stuff.  Not expensive, either.  I think I pay less than $150 for an engine with all the toys.

-------------
Here's one for under a huneret that you can buy easy.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/rc-airplanes.html?cat=1245&price=1%2C100

Just bought a new Magnum 15 off eBay for $50.00 which is about all I would spend on an engine for 15 carrier. If 15 carrier included a claim rule for say $75.00 you wouldn't see any Nelsons and it would really make it an entry level event, at least as far as equipment goes. Seems to work pretty well on the home town stock car circuit.

Just bought a new Magnum 15 off eBay for $50.00 which is about all I would spend on an engine for 15 carrier. If 15 carrier included a claim rule for say $75.00 you wouldn't see any Nelsons and it would really make it an entry level event, at least as far as equipment goes. Seems to work pretty well on the home town stock car circuit.

It really doesn't make much difference when they open the event up to electric motors with five times more powerful than any genuine 15, and to top it off, no chance of quitting at low speed and the coupe de grace, left hand rotation at no extra cost.

----------------
"Claiming" has been proposed several times, but I've never seen it applied to a CL event.  It might work in horse racing, but it never has in CL.  Carrier is one place where the chance of such a thing is zero point zero.  The owners of the event just jiggle rules to make it MORE expensive and higher performance. Never less.

$75 would put an effective lid on electrics, other than those willing to sacrifice a whole electro-drive system to win one contest.

A question:  I thought Mecoa was selling the Cox Conquest?  I have seen it on their site, I am sure...... ??

Another thought, not regarding the Conquest, but the older schnerule rear rotor K&B.  I have had those in the past for Goodyear racing, but not even a thought of Carrier use.  Thoughts?

Big Bear

The way the rules are currently worded, rear rotors are not allowed.

Since .15 is unofficial, any CD/ED is free to make any interpretation of modification desired.

Ever since the inception of .15 a couple of our local Midwest clubs have allowed cross-flow .19's  in .15 Carrier.  I don't know of anyone EVER actually entering a .19 powered model at a contest, but the sentence has been in my contest flyers ever since.  That doesn't make it the standard for the rest of the country however -- nor does some ED somewhere allowing a muffler pressure equiped model make it incumbent on me to allow pressure or rear-rotors.

My advice is to contact the organizers and make sure that you will be OK to fly anything that is questionable and not rely on an interpretation by me or anyone else not connected to the contest in question.

I have two of the K&B RV 15's.   They went fine for FAI Combat (F2D). They were used successfully in RC Quarter Midget (15) pylon racing and could be bought complete with Perry carb. But in racing, being the fastest (with good pitting) is what counts, so they were squeezed out by the Rossi.


I took yet another look at the NCS (Denver rules) on 15 Profile Carrier;

 

I think that one line says it all. Anything goes, within the swept volume limit. Muffler pressure, tuned pipe, crankcase, bar stock engine. Run what you brung. Subject, of course to the 70 MPH lid on the speed score.  It isn't exactly a "local" event. Unless amendments are posted, contestants expect the standard rules.

From a practical pint of view, current RC engines are generally sold set up for mufflers and muffler pressure and they won't work without it. At least not without some custom work. Look at it this way: The muffler pressure adds some boost, but the muffler also adds weight and reduces power, so it's a wash at best. Allowing muffler pressure (as the rules passively attest) lets you simply buy and fly.

I find that RC carbs are typically too big to run without muffler pressure.  As you note this is illegal in 36 Profile, but as I see it, OK in 15 or the scale classes.

One fix is to tear down the carb and choke it down with epoxy.

      Bob, I use a Norvel AME .15 on a combat plane. Another club member uses a FP.15 for his. Although, our planes differ in size the speeds are very much equal. My Norvel suffered a midair last year in which the  prop stud snapped off the front of the shaft and it went into a horrible shaft run. This put a hurtin on the engine. I did though manage to replace bearings and polish up a few parts and its getting happier and happier. We were both using Master Airscrew 7x4's and also APC 7x4's. I believe the FP likes the MA prop more than the APC. I use APC's on my Norvel and the instructions recommended that prop as well. We could both get into the 20k range. Since my engine has taken a bit more abuse I don't think I'm currently seeing that right now. I do think though when it was new it would of been slightly faster than the FP but they're real close for power. Others say they have problems restarting the Norvel's but I didn't seem to have that situation with mine I love it. I don't know anything about carrier, but we were using these engines with no mufflers and 35% Sig fuel. The problems your faced with is its hard to find parts for either engine. I searched for a rod for my FP.15 for almost a year. The Norvel as mentioned has a newer supplier which I hope to be using shortly. The nice thing though is the Norvel in my plane being the AME is the ball bearing engine which is a big improvement for power over the plain bearing Big Mig version.I tried the APC 6.3x4 early on and it was really revving high and after a few flights the prop started to show some funny white marks in the blades. I discarded the prop but that could've been from a bad landing. I just felt as though I wasn't getting the drive needed for the plane. At a recent contest this summer my son flew the plane against the other competitors in which they were using 25 size engines on up and the Norvel was keeping the pace. Ken