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Author Topic: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...  (Read 1780 times)

Offline Paul Smith

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Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« on: April 13, 2007, 03:36:49 PM »
As everyone probably knows, the instuctions tell you to mount the bellecrank so the UP/DOWN bellcrank moves straight in-and-out with respect to the pilot (or maybe you could say, 90 degeree to the flight path).

But when we move the leadout guide back 20 degrees when we shift from high to low, the angle of the dangle changes.  So if it's right at high speed, it's at 20-degree angle to the flight path at low. 

So what's the prevaling wisdom ?

Make it right at high?
Make it right at low?
Split the difference?


Paul Smith

Offline eric conley

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 07:14:44 PM »
I split the difference. On my Corsair which has a 9.25'' cord the bellcrank pivot point is 5 3/8'' behind the leading edge/2.5'' behind the wing spar. The BC is located in the outside wing panel behind the fuel tank and engine, and the carb. push rod travels through a copper tube soldered inside of the fuel tank. I once bought a class 1 plane that had the BC slanted to the low speed angle and the BC soon developed a worn spot where the pivot point came in contact with the throttle groove of the BC and when you tried to throttle back after the HS run it(the throttle) was locked in the wide open position. Oh boy was that fun. Anyway if its split you end up flying the HS portion with a little up elevator and the LS portion with a little down elevator. A little practice and its no big deal. eric

Offline bfrog

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 09:46:09 PM »
What I have done on both of my Vampires is to put short tether on the down line about midway between the fuselage and the wingtip that restricts the down line from moving back completely when the slider trips. That way when the slider is back the net effect is that there is minimal control change with the angle change. I wish I had a picture, its easier to do than explain in words.
Bob Frogner

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 06:20:57 AM »
My concern is that, when installed per the 1955 directions, the slider-slot is pointed directly at the leadout guide, thereby precluding frioction on the slot.  Logical !

My origianl gut feeling was that line pull is highest at high speed, so the slot should be lined up proper at high.

Then, with the leadouts kicked back, the slot will be subjected to a 15-20 degree side load.  Not good, but maybe better than a side load at top speed.

The opposite logic might be that at low speed you need all the smoothness you can get to work the controls, so it needs to be proper at low speed and just live with the problem for the first 16 seconds of the flight.  It only needs to slide ONCE at an angle....

hummmmmmm....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 06:27:59 AM by ama21835 »
Paul Smith

Offline bfrog

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 10:37:52 AM »
I have always mounted the unit with the slot pointing toward the high speed location for the slider. I have never had a problem with it binding during use at low speed. If you relieve the the bellcrank platform under the unit so that the slider is free to move it should be fine. Make sure that the bellcrank and all of the connection do not bind on the ground and they will work smoothly in the air.

On my 15 carrier planes the is very little tension on the lines during low speed. There just isn't as much force holding the plane out at low speed with a light model. Even in this cast I have not encountered any issues if the controls were free to start with.

Bob
Bob Frogner

Offline eric conley

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 11:35:37 AM »
Something that I've found is once the engine starts most if not all of the binding goes away. I think it has something to do with those 18,000 impulses per minute. Bob, I didn't know that you used the helper wire on the down line. Did Pete put you on to that? Your Vampires have the lines on the bottom of the wing as I recall so must have missed it. John Donaldson here in Reno equipped his Seahog with the same feature and now swears by how good it works. My planes don't have lead outs so never gave it much thought because I felt it might damage the flying lines. John uses the same set up I do and has had no trouble at all with his flying lines. The only time there is any contact is during LS and the line load is probably down at 8 pounds or less so it has work just fine. Your right that you have to see to understand how it works and how simple it is to install. I hope to see you next Sunday in Woodland and I can look at the Vampires. eric

Offline bfrog

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 07:49:29 PM »
OK, Here's try number two to add some pictures.

These are shots of the Vampire control system. I'll have to do this in two posts since the picture files are large.

First post is the controls in the high speed position. Note the small line (made out of old .015 control line) that is attached to a staple in the spar. There is a loop on the end that the down line goes through. At this position it does nothing.
Bob Frogner

Offline bfrog

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 07:53:59 PM »
Picture number two, the lines with the slider in the rearward position. The wire tether that the down line goes through limits the down line from going straight back through the lead out guide in the slider. This prevents the down line from "shorting up" due to the geometry change. I had to adjust it by trial and error to get it just right but that was easy.

It works well and does not seem to add enough friction to prevent good control.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Bob
Bob Frogner

Offline bfrog

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Re: Installing a J Roberts bellcrank with a leadout slider...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 07:56:45 PM »
After posting I noticed the first picture is a bit blurry, but you should be able to get the idea.

If need be I can add another, clearer picture.

Bob
Bob Frogner


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