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Author Topic: Hi Johnson Contest in October  (Read 3730 times)

Offline Ron Duly

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Hi Johnson Contest in October
« on: May 15, 2012, 09:37:14 AM »
The Valley Circle Burners have added Northwest Sport 40 Carrier to their annual Hi Johnson Stunt and Carrier contest this October.  There will be awards for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  This is a new (for the VCB) event and all are encouraged to enter. The other classes are AMA Navy Carrier Class 1, 2 and Profile (combined % of record) and 15 and SIG Skyray (combined % of 2011 NCS Top 10). In addition, any other Navy Carrier class can be entered for a Top 10 score (no trophy).  Look for the official VCB announcement in the near future.  The contest will be held at the Sepulveda Basin, Van Nuys, CA.

RULES FOR NORTHWEST SPORT 40 CARRIER
(Effective Jan. 6, 2012)
1. PURPOSE: It is the intent that this event will provide a simplified Navy Carrier competition using a simple airplane and a standard engine.

2. AIRPLANES: Any profile model of 300 or more square inches is allowed. There are no scale bonus points, but the model must display navy military markings of any nation. No method of changing the leadout position in flight is allowed. Movable control surfaces are allowed. Only single-engine planes are allowed.

3. ENGINES: Stock O.S. .40FP with stock muffler as supplied with the engine or Tower .40 with stock muffler as supplied with the engine, or O.S. .35FP with muffler as supplied with the engine are the only engines allowed. Muffler pressure is allowed.

4. FUEL: The fuel shall contain 10 percent nitromethane, 20 percent lubricant and 70 percent methanol by volume. Fuel shall be supplied by the contest management.

5. All AMA Profile Carrier rules, including scoring, apply except as noted above.


Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 10:43:07 AM »

Good call Ron. I remember KOTRC had a similar "Low Tech Carrier" event a few years ago. Don't know what happened to it but this event seems to be catching on. 8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
AMA 57499

Joejust

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 12:53:36 PM »
I have said this before, but once again I will say...............Mike Potter really hit the nail on the head with the idea and basic rulles for this event!!
Also, I can't begin telling about how much FUN this new event is for old-timer or rank beginner.  I really do believe that NW .40 Sport Profile Carrier may very well be the one thing that saves and increases participation in all Carrier events.

Joe Just

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 08:24:56 AM »
Just don't make it a National event or even an AMA official event. VD~ VD~ VD~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline dankar

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 07:09:09 AM »
Event sounds good but fuel with only 20% oil is not good news for me. FP .35/.40/Tower .40 fine but why exclude LA .40? I know idea was everybody had a FP-.40 but many don't.

Offline don Burke

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 09:40:42 AM »
Ditto on that!
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Ron Duly

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 01:04:37 AM »
Perhaps the originators of the event will share their reasoning as to why the LA 40 was excluded.  I'm just the Event Director following their rules (which I think have merit and why I asked to have their event included).

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 07:01:23 AM »
It's a local rules event - you can tweak or not tweak the rules to make it 'right' for your area as you see fit.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Ron Duly

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 03:27:41 PM »
No need to re-invent the wheel and no desire to tweak a good thing.  Just wondering (since I was asked by a potential entrant with only an LA) why no LA's. Folks in the NW have some history on the event and perhaps there was a reason.  And the answer is??????

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 05:34:52 PM »
If your the CD you can do just about anything as long as you announce it ahead of time.. If we were having sport 40 at our contest I wouldn't have a problem at all allowing LA 40's.

Around here everyone has bought TT 36's many used for ~ $50.00 or so... Not many LA or FP 40's around.. Most went to the LA 46 or Brodak 40 when they came on the market and got rid of the hard to tame for stunt LA and FP 40's.

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2012, 08:38:12 PM »
     I just got home from the North West Regional where the Sport 40 event was flown. There were 11 entries (5 last year) and I think everyone that flew had a blast. I know nothing about the LA 40 and actually don't know anything about the FP's either but did fly in the event just for the fun of it (and it was fun). It is all together different than the AMA events and a major part of that difference is the gutless FP engines. If the deck is not placed so it is into the wind these planes may not make it off. It would pay the flier to have a light plane which would also pay off in the HS part of the event. Just think of turning all of that raw power loose in a nice light plane (not). I think there were maybe 3 planes that couldn't get off the deck at the time of there flight because the wind had gone away just when they launched. Last years winner failed to place when his plane kept quiting just after take off. Some of the flyer's from other events arrived late in the last day and were hurried to get there flights with poor results but all in all I think everyone had a good time with the event and I hope it stays popular.  Eric
Eric

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2012, 08:54:06 PM »
     Now I remember why some of the planes had such a hard time getting off the deck, there landing gears were to short. You want to have a pretty tall landing gear so the plane will basically fly off the deck. With the shorter gear the fliers would hold up elevator which slowed there acceleration and then when they left the deck their tail would dip and the retracted hook would pick up a wad of grass. Another thing I found while flying my plane was that I could continue my low speed flight after the the seventh LS lap and signal for the landing and then come across the ramp at 2 feet max and cut the throttle right over the ramp and crunch my plane would be on the deck all hooked up and happy at mid deck. Doesn't get much better than that. Eric
Eric

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2012, 11:18:46 PM »
When I thought up this event my goal was to try to put everyone on a equal footing engine wise and make it more of a piloting skill event. I started by looking for an easy to tune user friendly engine that was cheap ($35 to $65) and easy to find. I asked all my flying buddies and looked daily at ebay and cruised the local swapmeets. I found the FP 40 fit the bill. Plus everyone I asked had at least one already. The FP 35 was included so a person could fly AMA profile and NW Sport 40 with the same plane if they so desired. Most likely wouldn't be competitive in AMA but you never know. I have been beat by some pretty slow basic models when my high zoot equipment failed. Something to said about simplicity and reliability.   
We had 11 NWS 40 entries last weekend and every indication of more to come!   Good Luck with this fun event.
                                                                                          Mike Potter
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 10:43:01 AM »
Hi Eric, I see you noticed the mistake most carrier flyers make.  Full up elevator will not help take off.   Like a stunt plane, they will accelerate faster if neutral elevator is held.   Had a hard time convincing an old head of that years ago flying out of grass.   Yes we used to fly carrier out of grass.   It was amazing how fast the planes would get air borne when holding neutral elevator. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Joejust

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2012, 09:47:34 AM »
Here's a picture of just two of the NW .40 Sport Profile ships that ere flown at the Regionals last weekend.  Both uilt from the same kit, one modified as is allowed by the NW .40 rules.
Joe

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2012, 02:54:44 PM »
     One thing that came up at the NWR contest was that the 10/10/10 my need a little more caster oil in it if we want these OS engines to survive for a while. But Brokaw said that when these engine are flown on 10/10/10 they will get loose in the front of the shaft after not to many flights. He had brought along some 10/10/14 that he got to set up his plane with and the ED put it out with the 10/10/10 for anyone to use that wanted to (I used it). These kind of things can come anytime a new event is tried and it good that we work our way through them.  Eric
Eric

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 04:53:52 PM »
If take offs are a problem with ground level decks and NW Sport Carrier I suggest you all consider elevating the end of the last deck piece 2" or so. Makes it sort of a "jump jet" type ramp but better that than a bunch of DQs on takeoff. This worked well at the Albuquerque contest where they had the same problem.  8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
AMA 57499

Joejust

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 08:03:49 PM »
The rules call for 10-20-70.  Contest provided.  What is 10-10-10. Or am I overlooking somethinjgt?
Joe

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2012, 08:44:23 PM »
     If the methanol is a given (70) then its 10% nitro, 10% oil, and 10% caster oil. The problem may be that there needs to be a little more caster in the mix. These are bushing engines and I think the feeling is they last longer with added caster oil. Eric
Eric

Offline don Burke

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2012, 09:32:08 PM »
Why not do what the racers do.  10% nitro, 20% oil fuel, choice of 10/10 synthetic/castor, or 20% all castor.
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2012, 07:12:26 AM »
We had 10-10-10 and 10-20 available. Beside I can't imagine putting more than about 10 minutes on an engine at a contest so using what ever blend is not going to produce much wear.  Mike
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2012, 08:37:16 AM »
I agree, a couple carrier flights with 10-10-10 shouldn't really be a problem... Last year at Brodaks I ran 10-20 all synthetic in the Fox 35 on my OTS Ringmaster simply because that is what I was running in my carrier and Classic airplanes and didn't want to drag another can of fuel along. The Fox didn't really like it but I managed to get through two flights and the old Fox is still running.

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 01:26:06 PM »
     It may be well and good to run what ever the contest supplies in some carrier events until you get to "my engine didn't like it" and that's when a "competitor" would have to step up and make a case for a different fuel. I guess I was looking for a commit on what fuel is best to run in a OS FP40 plain bearing engine? I'm one of those carrier flyer's that practices with all of his carrier planes so that when I go to a contest I can take my most competitive shot when my turn to fly comes up. I plan to practice with my Sport 40 and if a fuel with a higher percentage of caster oil is required over the long run then that is what I will use during practice and then at the contest because the 10/10/10 blends can usually be purchased by the sponsoring club I'll use that in the contest (one flight, or two at the most is all you need (if you've been "practicing")).
     I cant stress "practice" enough as the most important part of carrier or for that matter any event that you participate in competitively. Some of the reasons I hear for not practicing are, #1, "I have no one to fly with me" #2, "I don't have a place where I can fly carrier"? #3, "I don't have access to a deck".
     So #3 doesn't know how Lucky he is. Those heavy SOBs (decks) in my thinking the deck is the largest deterrent to carrier flying (cant do without them at a contest). I have a 10' string between two 5 pound dumbbells that I use for the most important part of the deck and always take them with me, placed just to the inside of where I take off from, and try to catch it on every landing by not ever trying to catch "it" but by landing just before it so that I catch it every time.
     #2, Say what? I have places I could fly from here in Nevada that the grass (because of weather conditions) is at least 2 inches deep after it is mowed and no I just cant bring myself to fly off of it. If I get off which is doubtful then when I land it is almost always a cartwheel. I don't have any paved areas and if I did I don't know how I could attach my stooge. So I drive 30 miles round trip several time a week and fly off a socker field where the grass is shorter or a baseball field where the out field is only watered enough to make it appear a little green.
     #1, Again you don't know how lucky you are. I have fellow carrier flyer's that tell me they take there carrier planes out to where their stunt friends are flying and they just cant get any of the stunt guy's to help them (gracefully). Well da, if I was an aspiring stunt flier the last thing I would want to share my circle with is a carrier flier in the "hang". The solution that has worked for me is I have a "stooge". That sucker never gives me gripes, period. It does exactly what I make it do and has never let me down "yet". I can fly time after time and it just does its job and never says a word, no breaks for water or smokes, nothing. The one thing you do have to watch out for is "yourself" because if you hurt your self you could be in a lot of trouble.
    So anyway, what fuel should I use when flying with the OS FG40 when I'm piling up the hours practicing? Eric
Eric

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 01:43:48 PM »
Everyone that I know that runs FP's and LA's uses 10-22, 10 nitro 11 synthetic and 11 castor.

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 05:04:19 PM »
     Thanks Bob. I happen to have some GMA Power Master fuel on hand that I will use just as soon as the wind goes down (Tuesday if the weatherman correct).  Eric
Eric

Offline skyshark58

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 08:16:14 PM »
Exactly the problem I was trying to avoid by not limiting the fuel when we first started flying NWS40. It was voted to limit the fuel to 10-20 this past winter. I voted no!
 It could be voted back to not limit it if some support could be raised!            Mike
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Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 08:46:42 PM »
     I thought that vote was to limit the nitro content to 10%. Well I guess it was plus limit the lubrication you could use also. What do you know about that, fooled again and it was all so easy. Sheep Conley
Eric

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2012, 08:08:30 AM »
Just  came from the Flying Lines site.  See rule i set 10% nitro and 20% oil, contest supplied.   A well broken in engine should not need more than 20% oil.  Of special note the CD should let people know what fuel should/would be used. H^^   
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2012, 09:08:21 AM »
The Stooge I use is a flat metal plate with 4 rubber feet. Then I take a nose gear block from the hobby shop and fashion a spring loaded pin and to release the model with a long orange cord.

The stooge I use is slightly larger than this one shown because it needs to hold my big .90 powered models.

You can put these stooges on any surface, concrete, grass, what ever you have and it won't move. No need to nail them to the ground or anything else, the friction between the four rubber feet are enough to keep these from moving.

My .90 powered scale jobs even at full power can't drag these along the ground, if the plate is heavy enough. Make the plate 12 lbs for large models, or make them smaller if all you have is a .40 sized engine.

Fred Cronenwett
Fred Cronenwett
AMA CLSCALE7 - CL Scale
Model Aviation CL Scale columnist

Joejust

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2012, 10:32:38 AM »
Let's not rush to judegement over oil percentages.  Everyone flying Sport 40 at Portland and at the Regionals was using provided fuel and I have yet to hear of any real complaints.
Joe

Offline Ron Duly

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2012, 05:11:58 PM »
An answer to my question of why the LA 40 is not allowed:  it is a "hotter" engine.  It seems that the timing on the LA is more favorable to high speed that the FP or Tower clone.  OK, now we know.  We will stick to the NW Sport 40 Carrier rules "as printed" for the Circle Burners contest.  The Club is willing to sponsor separate "expert" and "novice" divisions to encourage participation.  Come out and join the fun!

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 08:16:03 PM »
     The Hi-Johnson memorial contest will be this coming weekend (October 6&7) with carrier being flown on the Sunday the 7th. Burt Brokaw and I will have 2 NW sport 40s there and hopefully some one else will show up with 1 or more. Also I believe there will be some electrics there also plus I hope to have my 2.4 tx finished and the Bf109T converted so I can fly it at the contest. The contest is held at the Sepulveda Basin RC and U-control field. For some reason I have not found a flier on it to download?
Eric

Offline Peter Mazur

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 09:02:14 PM »
I have not seen how the voting has one on making 2.4 GHz legal. There are no results posted for the CL General category on the AMA Competitions web site. Anyone have news?
Even if one of the proposals passes, 2.4 GHz won't be legal until 2013, so you might not be able to fly 2.4 in contests until then. It's still open to debate how 2.4 GHz is covered by insurance until the new rules take effect. I never thought there was a problem but our AMA VP said that flying with 2.4 GHz is not covered by AMA insurance until the general rule is changed. Hope all this is settled and we can fly after january 1.
Pete

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2012, 09:40:01 PM »
Very interesting. I just checked the AMA rules and CL General par. 2 specifically says the use of radio in CL is NOT allowed. Any CD who wished to modify the rules to allow the use of 2.4 ghz before January would be in direct contradiction to the current rules. I suppose one could argue that it is no less safe today than it would be in January...

Offline BillLee

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2012, 02:58:17 AM »
Just like any other rule, the CD can add modifications as desired by mentioning them  in the proper spot on the sanction application. Any such deviations are then (supposed to be) checked by the AMA Technical Director to make sure safety is not compromised. If the sanction is issued with the deviations included, IMHO, AMA has then signed off on them and your AMA insurance will not be affected.

If the Technical Director deems the deviations unsafe, the sanction is not supposed to be issued.

Bill Lee
AMA 20018

Offline eric david conley

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Re: Hi Johnson Contest in October
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2012, 07:47:22 AM »
     I should have been more clear about what I was doing. I'm just flying it for show and tell not as a competitive entry. Tony Naccarato has been flying his 2.4 development planes at this contest for several years now for show and tell. Course we will only fly them if time allows and as many of you know there is usually some slack time in our events. Sorry I wasn't clear on what I was doing.  Eric
Eric


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