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Author Topic: first time carrier project  (Read 2658 times)

Offline bill bischoff

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first time carrier project
« on: April 04, 2012, 09:15:11 PM »
Long time customer, former pylon racer, and friend J.P. Hanway from the Colony Texas, has recently completed his first carrier plane. The plane is of course the Sterling Guardian, built from an actual kit (all the de-laminated plywood was replaced). J.P. Built this plane for his brother in law, Jack Ackerer. Jack flew carrier in the late 60's- early 70's in Ohio. Does anybody know or remember him? Jack really can't turn circles anymore, so I suspect I will fly this plane once or twice for him to see, then it will hang from the ceiling and be admired.

J.P. started talking to me about this project a couple of years ago, and I wasn't sure what would ever come of it. When he started bringing parts into the store a few months ago for inspection and suggestions, I was more than impressed. We threw ideas back and forth, I built him a tank and found a suitable carb, and showed him how to make the engine run backwards. In case you don't recognize it, the engine is an OS 65RSR speed engine from about 1975. It was new in the box! We used an Evolution 60NX carb, which fit the engine perfectly, and looks to be an appropriate bore to run on suction. The Evolution remote needle is mounted to the airframe, yielding a neat installation. The finish is silkspan and nitrate dope, then Polycrylic for a harder surface finish, Superpoxy primer, then Klasskote color and clear. Being a pylon racer back in the day, J.P. knows his way around the spray booth! Truly a fine effort all the way around.

Having never built or flown one of these before, I personally have some concerns about the integrity of the engine mounts. They seem to be nothing more than a couple pieces of 1/2 x3/8 maple glued to the bottom block. I am told this is per the kit. Can anyone comment on this? I would hate to see anything happen to this airplane.

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 04:53:20 AM »
Bill, as I remember I built the Sterling Guardian with the stock engine bearers for the longest time while running Rossi 60's. I do remember eventually finding a way to run the engine bearers farther back. I don,t recollect a lot of complaints about the model having serious issues in the motor mount area. Nice looking airplane. Let us know how it flies.
Thanks
Wayne
Wayne Buran
Medina, Ohio
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline Bob Heywood

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 09:15:23 AM »
Nice model.

I built mine right out of the box. It was a rugged as its Grumman namesake.
"Clockwise Forever..."

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 10:54:57 AM »
Impressive build, wish I could be there for the test flights. With a .65 a real return to days of yore.  8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
AMA 57499

Offline skyshark58

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2012, 04:53:20 PM »
I would be concerned about that old light weight bellcrank too. Altho I never had one fail. Very nice looking model with a scale paint job y1

                                                                                                                                         Mike
mike potter

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2012, 08:12:52 PM »
 Very cool, awesome job! Thanks for the story and the pics. y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline david smith

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 12:01:02 AM »
Here is a pic of one that I built a couple of years ago that started with an OPS 60 the changed to an OS 61. I never had any problems with motor mounts until it decided it wanted to be Japanese and kamakazi(sp?) the deck at the Sig contest. The engine almost ended up in the tall grass just outside the pit area but the motor mounts and a big chunk of balsa was still attached to the engine. They should be fine.

David

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 08:34:05 AM »
If you look at the plans and build the kit as per instructions.   The fuselage sides glue to the engine mounts also.   I have had three Sterling Gaurdians,   first one was Merco .49 and got me my first trophy(a first place).  Next was the McCoy .60 Redhead with Bill Johnson setup.  Won a lot of contests with it.  The last one was Rossi .60 power with Johnson type throttle.  Was not very consistant.  The fourth Gaurdion was one of Bill Meltons planes.   Can't remember the engine, but had a Perry pump on it.   The kit built Guardians were all built using Ambroid or Testers cement and stayed together except the one time in Nebraska I pulled the hook out of the plane.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline dankar

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 11:26:14 AM »
Wow,.. looks great. I have a nice new ST .60 rv with Kavan hi-pressure carb. Plus a Sterling Guardian kit. I know what you mean about plywood parts. Redid them all. I made two extra hulls for bottom and want to make Class 1 and one a Class 2.  Even have a full Quart of Areo-Gloss Corsair Blue. My Joe Just profile F-4-F came out purdy.
Hope to get pictures soon so folks can see for them self.
Cheers,Dan

Joe Just

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2012, 04:06:25 PM »
Here's a picture of Dan's Wildcat.

Offline dankar

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 10:16:33 AM »
Thanks Joe, was hoping one picture would show up here. Tower .40 in the nose.
Dan

Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2012, 10:22:48 AM »
Tower 40? Is North West Sport Carrier going to migrate to the South West? That would be a good thing! Plane looks good BTW. 8)
Pete Cunha
Sacramento CA.
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Joe Just

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2012, 02:31:08 PM »
NW Sport also allows FP.35's as well.  Then you can run the plane in 2 events, NW Sport and AMA profile.  Also as AMA rules state one can run mufflers if you use 10% fuel you don't have to take off the muffler.NW rules also call for 10% provided fuel. 4 official flights with the same airplane!  Mike Potter really came up with a winner with this new event.  While some are doubtful about engine restrictions, the intent is worthwhile.  The future?  Other than  the NW there may be engine changes to something like LA .25's only. .40 FP's are easily obtained, just today I got one off eBay for under $30. .35FP's a bit harder to get, but they are available.
Joe

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2012, 03:22:16 PM »
Sorry it's been a while for this one, but here's the latest. JP and Jack came out to the contest at the end of April, but at that time I hadn't made lines yet, and the engine hadn't been run or adjusted in the airplane, only on the bench. They took the airplane home, and the next day they ran the engine and made some preliminary adjustments. Sadly, Jack died that very night, so he never got to see the Guardian fly.

JP and I both still wanted to see it fly, so he left the airplane with me so I could build lines. Contest season spooled up and I got busy with that, so I didn't get the lines made until last weekend. I called JP and told hit it was time to make it fly.

I got to fly it three times today. The engine idled and ran very nicely below about half throttle, but did not want to draw fuel at full throttle. After a couple of flights we changed from the original Evolution 60NX carb barrel to a smaller bore 46 barrel. This would run at a higher throttle setting, but still quit if I opened it too far. (Next, we are going to eliminate the remote needle and go direct to the carb.)  In spite of this problem, it seemed like the airplane was going to be fast, and I was able to fly the airplane in slow speed quite successfully. This is the first Sterling Guardian that I have flown, and maybe they're all like this, but this airplane flies beautifully! With the flaps dropped and the rudder deflected, I didn't detect any changes in handling, but I do think that it did fly a bit slower in the "dirty" configuration. Flying as fast as I was able, the airplane grooved well and was not touchy, yet there was enough elevator authority to hold the nose up a "nostalgia-correct" amount.

Other than the high throttle issue, I didn't feel that anything about this airplane needed to be changed. I am looking forward to getting the engine sorted out, and being able to post a score with this airplane at our October contest.
Nice job JP. I think Jack would be pleased.

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2012, 07:16:03 PM »
Bill, it's not clear to me if you are running pressure or suction and how the tank is vented. Can you describe. Sorry to hear about Jack. BTW do you know from where in Ohio Jack was. In the late 60's to mid seventies Carrier was real heavy in Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Detroit.
Thanks
Wayne
Wayne Buran
Medina, Ohio
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 09:09:44 PM »
The engine is running on suction. The tank is half-round, flat on top. The vent goes to the front top outboard corner, making it a "front uniflow". If the vent was moved inboard some, it would lean out less in the air, but even on the ground it won't run at full throttle, so it's not (just) a tank problem.  I really think it's the remote needle. but we'll know soon enough!

I'll ask JP if he knows any more details about where and when Jack was flying.

Offline don Burke

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2012, 09:21:53 PM »
The engine is running on suction. The tank is half-round, flat on top. The vent goes to the front top outboard corner, making it a "front uniflow". If the vent was moved inboard some, it would lean out less in the air, but even on the ground it won't run at full throttle, so it's not (just) a tank problem.  I really think it's the remote needle. but we'll know soon enough!

I'll ask JP if he knows any more details about where and when Jack was flying.

Really sounds like too big a venturi diameter for suction, if it's an RC carb the sizes are designed for muffler pressure.  If you think about hydraulic systems (fuel system) the needle valve is just a regulator within the system.  Actual position doesn't really mean a lot IMO.  I know a lot of folks will say I'm wrong.  But I are just a engineer.

don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2012, 04:48:41 AM »
Bill, I have not had any luck with a uniflow setup trying to draw thru a large carb a long distance. 4BK in fact around 9 inches until i quit blocking one of the inlets. I fnally got moving without a problem when I left all the vents open. That doesnt say that the carb inlet still might not need to be reduced. My Irvine .36 and K&B 40 FESE graycase 4 BK equiped draw well at about 9 14 inches. Hope this helps.
Wayne
Wayne Buran
Medina, Ohio
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2012, 07:23:20 AM »
That is why I put the uniflow vent at the front of the tank instead of the rear. As long as the vent is covered by fuel, the engine thinks the fuel is where the vent opens into the tank. The vent is uncovered in low speed, but you have much less centrifugal force to overcome, and better fuel draw with a partially closed carb.

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2012, 10:51:41 AM »
"BTW do you know from where in Ohio Jack was. In the late 60's to mid seventies Carrier was real heavy in Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Detroit."

JP said Jack was from North Olmsted, and flew in the same club with Carl Dodge. In fact, the club meetings were at Jack's parents' house. They would fly until dark then have the meeting in the barn. Perhaps this will sound familiar to somebody.

Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2012, 08:36:37 AM »
"BTW do you know from where in Ohio Jack was. In the late 60's to mid seventies Carrier was real heavy in Dayton, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Detroit."

JP said Jack was from North Olmsted, and flew in the same club with Carl Dodge. In fact, the club meetings were at Jack's parents' house. They would fly until dark then have the meeting in the barn. Perhaps this will sound familiar to somebody.

Bill, I believe the club was called the "Prop Busters" or "Lakewood Flight Masters", however Flight Masters was heavy into stunt. I will run this by Gary Hull, Rick Essex and Norm Skuderin and see what I can find out. Carl Dodge still flies speed and is still very active on the U S speed team.
Wayne
Wayne Buran
Medina, Ohio
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USAF Veteran 35 TAC GP/ 6236 CSG, DonMuang RTAFB, Bangkok, Thailand 65-66 North Coast Controliners   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well!

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2012, 07:46:25 PM »
I am happy to report that the fuel system problems are ironed out, and I got to fly the Guardian at our year end carrier contest. High speed was 107 mph on 10%, low speed in the wind was 27 mph. I ramped the landing, which is as close as you can get and still miss the landing  >:(. Part of the hook release mechanism broke, which will be easy to fix, but was enough to make me not fly it a second time. JP was there to see it and seemed pleased, and also wants me to keep flying it. Looks like I'll have one more event to fly next year.

The magic fix for the fuel system was replacing the Evolution carb with an OS 6B carb. I don't know where I got it, or what engine it was actually made for, but it fit without modification and works beautifully. Even though it is a significantly larger bore that the Evolution carb, I think it has better draw because the spray bar goes all the way across the bore. As I think about it, I also had fuel draw problems with the Evolution 36 carb.

More details about the rest of the contest in a day or two, and hopefully David Russum will post some pictures.


Offline SteveMoon

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Re: first time carrier project
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 05:56:02 AM »
I flew my first Carrier contest yesterday and got to see the Guardian fly. It is quite
a sight to behold. Loud and fast! Bill let me fly "The Mule", a Hellcat with no line
slider in Sportsman and Class I. I managed 4 complete flights with landing scores
of 95, 85, 95 and 95. I was pretty darn happy with that. David Russum managed
a couple of 100 point landings to finish just a few points ahead of me. All in all,
it was a lot of fun and I had a great time. Thanks to Bill and all the DMAA guys.

Steve


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