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Author Topic: electric question  (Read 552 times)

Offline david smith

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electric question
« on: October 10, 2011, 06:50:28 PM »
Alright I might just build an electric but I want to build a twin. I am assuming that the max of 42 volts is for the whole plane whether it has 1 motor or 4 motors.  The rules that I read didn't specify but I would think it would be like the combined displacement on glow engines.

One other question is what set up would those of you that fly electrics suggest for a twin?  I am looking for performance not just something to putt around with.

Thanks
David

Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: electric question
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 07:31:00 PM »
My first choice would be a Brodak F7F Tigercat.

Then again I'm not familiar with what's out plan-wise for a Twin-powered Carrier model.
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: electric question
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 07:53:51 PM »
Uh...

If you don't hook your six 42V battery packs in series, then your B-36 won't go over the 42 volt maximum.  It may tear your arm off, but it'll be within the rules.

I suspect it's more a shock hazard thing.
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Offline john vlna

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Re: electric question
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2011, 08:03:32 PM »
Dave,
You will probably be driven more by the weight limit than anything else. Twins, glow or electric can get heavy fast.
Your hook up can go either way. I have built E Twins with one battery and with two. I think for carrier I would opt for two batteries, one for each motor.
I don't have an answer on the rules, but I think the intent is probably 42 volts per motor max.

A Relatively high KV motors using 5 cells per motor probably would give you the performance your looking for. You might want to look at the Exceed Rocket series. Well made and reasonably priced. I recently bought a couple and they seem to exceed the 3 watts per gram rule
http://www.hobbypartz.com/rocket.html

John

Offline david smith

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Re: electric question
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2011, 08:15:04 PM »
If I do it I am going to do a class 2 and it will probably be a tigercat because I found a rc scale short kit. 
 By set up I mean power system (motor, speed controller, batteries).

Offline eric david conley

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Re: electric question
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2011, 08:28:31 PM »
     Well David speaking for myself I cant get anything better than putting around performans out of my e-profile right now let alone doubling the problems (twin motors) of trying to get more performance. If your going to build a profile or CL-1 you will have 3.5pds to play with and to get a twin to get off its a-s and perform (like in be competitive) I don't see it happening. Course I use to say I was going to build a twin (started 17 years ago) and be competitive with it and so far I haven't been disappointed because I've checked everything that was and still is available and I never could finish the plans for the plane because there was no way to build a twin that would be competitive. If there was a chance that a twin could be competitive there would be a few of them around. I haven't seen any in the last 17 years anyway.
     If this is going to be your first e-carrier plane I strongly recommend that you start with a single instead of a twin.   Eric
Eric

Offline Fred Cronenwett

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Re: electric question
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2011, 09:36:20 PM »
I have always wondered if the rules were 42 volts maximum for each motor or for both motors. This makes a huge difference. But the other responses are correct the maximum weight of the total package, two motors, 2 batteries and the airframe needs to weigh less than 4.5 lbs.

Remember that a 60 sized electric motor uses a 6S for scale purposes and it only comes in at 21 volts. I doubt that you will exceed the 42 volt rule, you will probably exceed the total weight rule first. I have looked at what it would take to do a DH Hornet from the Gordan Whitehead plans and the most I could put on the plane and still come under 4.5 lbs was a pair of E-25's or less.

They are also right about doing a single engine model first, I learned a lot from my single engine sport model with an E-60, well worth the time.

Fred C.
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Offline Peter Mazur

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Re: electric question
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 12:37:51 PM »
The 42 volts was put in the rules because at the time AMA rules for electrics had that limit. It was a safety thing, not a performance thing. The understanding of the rules is that no part of the electrical system should be more than 42 volts (nominal) away from any other part. So two motors each running 10S LiPo packs (which are nominally 42 volts at low current and much less at high current) is the maximum voltage permitted. These motors would be independently wired so the voltages can't add together to produce an 84 volt potential anywhere.
Now to get back to the original question: What stuff should you use? I have had good luck with the AXI 2826/08 in my Skyrays. They have been reliable and smooth and get me to 75 mph (barely) on 4S batteries. I use 4s 3900 mAh Thunderpower ProLite G6 batteries. If you were to have good performance with this airplane and go for a four minute low, you might need a total of 5000 mAh.  I have to guess here that the flight time for a given battery would scale as the weight or, alternatively, that the battery size required for the same flight time would scale as the weight. So assuming you are at the maximum weight and scaling from the Skyray, 4.5 lbs/3.5 lbs X3900 = 5000. This leaves you with a flat battery after 4.5 minutes of low, not much reserve and probably not optimum for battery life, but it is a start. I have neglected the efficiency difference of a twin airplane  vs. a single engine airplane, since I have no data. Another motor I use is the Scorpion SII-3026-1190. It has more power for only a little more weight, but I really run it hard and it will vibrate like crazy if I don't have an external rear bearing mounted to the airframe. I have a Scorpion SII-3020-1110 that I will try in my new Class I. It is a little smaller, shorter, lighter, and slower. It might be more stable. I have not run it yet, so I don't know. For the controllers, I love my Castle Creations ICE controllers. You will need one for each motor, so you are stuck with buying two. If you can mount them with ducting for good airflow, you can use the ICE Lite 100A  for the 3026 or Ice Lite 75A for the AXI or the Scorpion 3020. These controllers have built in data loggers and they are robust with considerable reserve. The regular ICE controllers have finned aluminum heat sinks and are not quite so sensitive to cooling air flow, but that adds weight.
As others have noted, you will be struggling to meet the weight limit. At every point when building, make the decision to do the light thing. That's true for single engines as well as multi engines.
And Eric's recommendation start with a single engine model is sound advice. I would be more specific and suggest you build an electric Skyray. It's quick and easy and you can use it as a testbed for all the components that you will put in the twin. And when something craps out, as it is likely to do when you are getting started, a Skyray will be a lot easier to fix.
Pete

Offline david smith

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Re: electric question
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 09:30:13 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  I believe I will start with the skyray but I will have a twin eventually. I hope to get started on some stuff in a couple weeks after we get our contest done.

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: electric question
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2011, 02:04:58 PM »
David
When you go for the twin electric here is my recommendation for hooking it up.
Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.


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