You have to get straight which event you are talking about -

There are 3 AMA Rulebook events - Class 1, Class 2 and Profile.  To get scale points in Profile, your model must "Closely Resemble" the 3 view (that you COULD be required to show) in the Top View and the Side View.  It doesn't have to be built to any consistent scale (ie: it doesn't have to be 1":1' in every dimension).  If it does closely resemble the prototype "in the opinion of the event director", then you will receive 10 bonus points.

For "Sportsman" Profile carrier (where it is offered), generally the rules are the same as AMA profile, but you can only enter Sportsman OR AMA Profile, not both.  This is to give the Sportsman entrant an event that won't be dominated by expert flyers.

For NOSTALGIA profile carrier, there are NO SCALE bonus points - because in the 1974 rules, profile did not get scale bonus points.  There is a "Historic Model" bonus which has just been raised to 100 points.  Whether or not you receive this bonus is, at present, up to the event director, I guess.  Some say the model must have been designed as a carrier plane, others say any design that existed prior to 1978 can be entered and get the bonus if all other requirements are met.  From what I've read, this is still a cloudy issue.  One question that I would have regarding the Guillows trainer III- did it have 300 square inches?  I am not familiar with that plane in all its variations, and I would caution that regardless of whether or not it gets the historic model bonus, it needs to be at least 300 square inches to be entered at all.

Hopefully, this thread can avoid being dragged off to 'anti-slider-what's-wrong-with-carrier'-ville long enough to answer your question - I am also interested.

I will add this -- as the Contest Director of a May contest -- I have not made a decision yet on this issue but I am leaning towards giving the bonus to any pre-1978 design based on my own reading of the rules as they currently exist.  If another CD comes to the opposite conclusion, I wouldn't argue with him.  So, in your position, I would certainly find out in advance if your model will get the bonus -- at least you'll save yourself some disappointment.

I have to strongly disagree with the interpretation that only purpose designed Carrier models are eligible for the Historic Bonus. That has never been the case....Never. The following is an explanation issued by Dick Perry that prefaces his list of designs that qualify for the Bonus:

"NAVY CARRIER PLANS/KITS LISTING

     This is a compilation of plans which have been published or are available commercially.  The listing contains models designed specifically for CL Navy Carrier as well as models designed for other events or for sport flying which can be adapted to the Navy Carrier events.  Unless noted otherwise, the models were originally designed as Carrier models.  In some cases plans are no longer available.  The date of original publication is provided to assist in locating original articles for reference or for reproducing plans which are out of print.  Wing span is given in inches rounded to the nearest inch.  Wing areas are approximate and are listed in square inches. 

     At the end of the listing is an abbreviated compilation of kits produced prior to 1978.  This list is provided for documentation of models eligible for Nostalgia Navy Carrier competition.  Nostalgia Carrier is an unofficial event for models published or manufactured prior to 1 January 1978.

     This list is based on information from personal reference sources, magazine plans listings, and materials contained in the library of the Academy of Model Aeronautics.  It is quite likely that there are other Navy Carrier models for which plans exist.  Additions to this listing can be made by contacting Dick Perry, 427 Live Oak Lane NE, Albuquerque NM  87122-1422;
E-mail:  tailhooker@comcast.net

     This list is provided at no cost.  There are no restrictions to its distribution except that it be unmodified and that there should be no fee charged for such distribution."

In other words any kit or design, if available prior to Jan 1, 1978, that was Carrier legal qualifies for the bonus.


Bob

Thanks guys,
I was refering to the Nostalgia Profile Carrier event with the new 100 point bonus. I guess it's still as clear as mud!
Chris...

I'll try this again.

There are only three (3) things that matter:

1) Was the design or kit available prior to the January 1, 1978 cut-off date?
2) Is the design an AMA legal profile model?
3) Is the wing area equal to or greater than 300 sq. In.?

If the answer is YES to all three then it qualifies for the Historical Bonus.

That's it! No more, no less.

Bob

Bob,

Looks great to me.  I hope this interpretion prevails.

Joe is very correct.

The real end date of "traditional" US Navy Carrier event was December 31, 1975.

So the "before 1978" cutoff alredy has two years of slack built in.  If it flew in the real "nostalgia era", two years in more than enough time to get it published.  We don't need that 1954 jive they try to use in Old Time Stunt.

I think what Joe is saying about the wording makes sense in that how do you prove that you built the airplane before the cutoff if you dont have any documentation?  Yes you may know that you built and flew it but if the people you are flying with or the ED's dont know or have never seen it then how are they suppose to allow it?

The Guillows Trainer was a slab wing,upright engine basic trainer kitted in the mid to late 50s. It was designed for about a 19 size engine. Like the AMT 3in1 plastic car kits the directions showed some different versions you could build,one of them was a carrier version. The killer is it's wing area was about 250 sq. inches it has to have 300. Another carrier legal kit that doesn't make the sq. in cut is the Sterling Skyshark. It was designed for carrier only as had flaps and ailerons that deployed for low speed. Too bad it was so small. I built a 340 sq in one about 10 years ago with a K&B 5.8 in it. The fuselage was too big and I didn't get a very good high speed from it, flew nice tho.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                       Mike

Back in the day, Profile Carrier models with vertical engines were quite common.  Just as long as the back end of the body met the profile definition. 

It would bring a lot more peace to the valley if they just went ahead and scraped the historic bonus in Profile altogether and allowed newly-designed airframes that meet the 1974 rules (like B Team Race).

I agree with inclusivity. Thanks for your time.
Chris...

The eligibility rule clearly spells out the process. Proof is the responsibility of the contestant. The CD / ED is empowered to make the ruling. Proof may be a dated photograph or some form of affidavit.

I believe in the fundamental integrity of people. There is no reason to cheat. If someone has one of these designs in their history I'm willing to bet they have necessary proof, in some form. We're vain and like to have pictures showing our handiwork.

If someone doesn't have such a design, there is no reason to fake one. There are a large number of established designs of all levels of complexity from which to choose. Heck, it's a simple event. Just make a Condor and go fly.

Bob