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Author Topic: A universal U/Tronics handle  (Read 1534 times)

Offline john vlna

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A universal U/Tronics handle
« on: June 10, 2010, 05:29:29 PM »
I wasn’t sure of the best place to post this, so since the handle was first used on a carrier plane I thought the Carrier section was appropriate.

In the vendors section Clancy Arnold (U/Tronics) has posted information on a universal handle for his electric controllers.  I have prototyped a handle based on this concept and I really like it. It allows you to use the controller with multiple models and reduces onboard weight. The trade is you have to use insulated lines. The prototype is just for single channel, but it works either with a glow powered plane and servo throttle or an electric powered plane with ESC. As I understand it, the multichannel system can also be used this way.

My handle is based on the familiar J Roberts design, currently made by Brodak. I chose this layout because it is familiar and matches my style of flying. For the prototype and ease of construction and lightness I used 1/8 ply sides with a ½” balsa core. I just CA’d a finger hole on the slide resistor. Since the photo I have bolted the finger hole to the resistor. Connections to the lines (Surflon) are 2mm bullets, Dean’s micro 2r connectors are used to connect the battery and control circuit. On the airplane end the lines again connect to the ESC with 2mm bullets.

I’ve used it on two different planes so far and it works great. Below are some pictures during construction.

Offline bfrog

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2010, 10:38:47 PM »
John,

What size airplane are you using this on? What size are the Surflon lines? Could you show a picture of the details on how you connect the wires to the lines at each end?

Looks interesting. Do you think the 2 thicker lines slow you down a lot from 3 non-insulated lines?

Thanks
Bob
Bob Frogner

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2010, 11:06:55 PM »
Bob, The lines are 30#, which is about .012 for the wire. The plane is a profile version of a MO-1 and used to be a 15 powered carrier plane. I have also used the handle on an electric Clown. Here is one picture with the lines attached, not very clear, but it may help. I simply solder the 2mm bullet connectors to the end of the flying line. The ends are crimped  just like you would to make a normal connection, I just leave the ends longer. Soldering the connectors to the stainless steel is hard, but I use a 250 watt gun and a good flux and it seems to work. I'll post some more details but it may not be right away, I am leaving for Brodak's thies weekend. 

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2010, 11:17:55 PM »
OOPS I forgot, the model seems to fly about the same as with the three line system. It is hard to judge speed differences. The lines are draggy but but I don't think there is a big difference. 15 Carrier planes have a lot of line sweep, and I am turning the prop lefthanded.

I am only using a 3s battery and running about 180 watts static. I figure that is like a .10. Seems to me that is the problem with mixing electrics and glow in the same events as they are doing at the NATS this year. With a different motor and 4s I can probably make it much faster than a 15 powered plane and still stay within the weight limit. It may be ok in 15 because of the speed limit, but I don't think it would be ok in the AMA events.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 08:58:46 AM »
John,  I like your details of the handle.  But, clarify, are you using cable or wire for the lines? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 10:45:06 AM »
Doc,
Surflon is stainless steel cable covered by nylon. It is commonly used by CL flyers who use electrical control. The coating bring the total line diameter to much larger than the wire size. With the coating,  30lb lines are about .024, the inner wire is about .012.
John

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 06:52:14 PM »
John
Thanks for the kind words about my Universal U/Tronics Control design.  The Multi channel system will work just like the single channel and give you 3 to 6 extra channels to do other things with.

Bob
Here is the way I connect the insulated leads that go to the connectors at the wing tip and handle to the insulated flying lines.

1.  Strip about 3 inches of the nylon jacket from the end of the steel cable.
2.  Place a piece of shrink sleeving over the steel cable and slide it back out of your way.
3.  Fold over about 1/8 inch more of the steel cable than the length of the Silver Colored ferrule you are going to use.
4.  Insert the folded end of the cable into the ferrule and slid it all the way through.
5.  Insert the folded end back through the ferrule again the opposite direction.
6.  Place a large straight pin (I use a T pin) through the fold in the cable to prevent it sliding back out of the ferrule.
7.  Tighten the loop around an eyelet making sure the cable remains in the slot of the eyelet.  I also try to keep the end of the cable in the grove also.
8.  While holding the cable tight around the eyelet crimp in two places or swage the ferrule using the proper size tool.
9. Tin one side of the ferrule, this is why Silver colored ferrules are required.  
10.  Solder the pretinned end of the insulated stranded hook up wire to the ferrule with the wire laying back along the steel cable.
11.  Fold the hook up wire back along the ferrule and cover with the shrink sleeving of step 2 above.  This reinforces the mechanical connection and helps prevent the hookup wire from breaking at the solder joint to the ferrule.
12.  I use a pair of flat jawed pliers to clamp the eyelet to the steel cable after the ends are completed.

See picture of the lines to my Ringmaster Trainer.

Silver colored ferrules are available from MBS Model Supply.
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 07:35:10 PM »
Clancy,
Thanks for the info, although I have not had any problems with  bullet connectors your system seems much stronger. I find that I learn something new everyday working with electric power. Most of my planes in the future will likely be all electric.

By the way MBS models supply doesn't seem to be on the web or they are gone. Do you have an address?
John

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2010, 08:00:06 PM »
Attached is a drawing showing how I make the connections. There is no strain on the electrical ends.

Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2010, 08:12:37 PM »
John
I just talked to Melvin Schuette and he is still in business.

http://www.mbsmodelsupply.com/ContactUs.php

MBS Model Supply
P.O. Box 282
Auburn, KS 66402-0282
Phone: (785)256-2583 Cell: (785)221-7042

Clancy
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN   AMA 12560 LM-S
U/Tronics Control
U/Control with electronics added.

Offline bfrog

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2010, 09:58:17 PM »
John and Clancy, Thanks for the details on the connections.

John, 180watts is very low for a 15 sized plane. On my electric 15 I'm using a 3s pack and I think it's around 35 or 40 amps. Somewhere in the 400 watt range. When I originally sized the motor I took what a Cox Conquest was rated at, .75hp, and scaled it. 1 HP is about 750 watts so .75 HP is 560 watts. The motor I chose was rated at about 500 watts. That was the rated power which usually is not real world. I expected somewhere in the 400 watt range during actual use.

I converted an old Sniper to electric and with this setup I get very close to the 70 mph max speed (usually in the low 26 second range, 70 mph on 52 foot lines is actually 25.7 seconds). I have been very happy with the performance. The plane is a little heavy and not real aerodynamic so a purpose built electric should have no problem making the 70 mph. What I really like is the reverse rotation. It is extremely helpful especially on the smaller 15 sized airplane. It really stays out on the lines well, not like the glow version running regular rotation.
Bob Frogner

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2010, 08:49:47 AM »
Bob,
you are right about the power being low for carrier. The motor is actually rated at 275w so there is more power to be had. The motor is actually fine on a Brodak Clown as a stunt plane. I didn't start out to make a carrier plane, like you I just converted one that I had. What surprised me is that if flies so well, albeit the high speed is lacking. But that said is is about like a sport 15 with a muffler.
One problem with staying with 3 cells is to get the power you need a bigger prop. Even to get the max from this motor I need a 10 inch prop.  Going to more cells gets the power up with smaller props if the motor can take it. The RC guys tell me I am OK as long as I don't exceed the current/power limits of the motor.

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 12:40:19 PM »
Please note that the lines sizes for Carrier are calculated on having THREE lines share the load.

.012" x one= 25 pounds, x2 = 50 pounds, x3 = 75 pounds.
.015" x one = 40 pounds, x2 = 80 pounds, x3 = 120 pounds.
.018" x one = 55 ponds, x2 = 110 pounds, x3 = 165 pounds.

So if you devise a two-line system, don't expect to use the same diameter as three lines. You need to go up to the next size to maintain the same safety factor.  

Note: The Brodak rules state lines sizes, with the comment "for three-line systems".

15 Profile is a non-rule book event, but such events are obligated, in the interest of safety, to mirror the practice in similar events, which is to go to thicker lines when fewer lines are used. The insulation is not load-bearing, only the steel.

As the chart above indicates, (3) .012" = 75 pounds, (2) .015" = 80 pounds, almost a perfect match.



« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 07:01:13 PM by Paul Smith »
Paul Smith

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 02:12:47 PM »
You are correct, carrier pull tests are calculated on 3 load bearing lines. The breaking point for Surflon matches your numbers almost exactly, The 30 lb test is .012, and the 40lb is .015.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2010, 10:26:54 AM »
The rules show the line sizes for two line control systems.  Also shows for single line controls.  The pull test weight is still the same for each catagory.  It doesn't matter if single, double or three lines, still pulls the same. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline john vlna

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2010, 06:43:29 AM »
Doc,
the pull test is always the same either 20 or 25G, But lines sizes vary if you use 1, 2, or 3lines, the actual breaking point also varies which is what I think Paul was getting at. I am currrently flying a 15 carrier plane on 30# Surflon, but that would not be legal in a contest because it is two lines and although 15 it is not a rule book event probably should use .015 lines since I only need two lines.
John

Offline roger

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Re: A universal U/Tronics handle
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 04:00:43 PM »
 LL~looks like yhe back of my 1940 am radio??????????????????????? %^@


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