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Author Topic: 3-line handle options  (Read 2655 times)

Offline Allan Perret

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3-line handle options
« on: July 10, 2012, 07:18:04 AM »
Some time ago I remember seeing a homemade 3-line handle system that was much smaller and lighter than the J.Roberts system. 
Any body have a lead on that ?
Allan Perret
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Slidell, Louisiana

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 07:42:47 AM »
Hard to know what you might have seen, but let me give my  2 cents. The commercial 3 line handles are designed to always have equal tension on all 3 lines. You don't have to hold the throttle in position against line tension. All the home-made handles I have seen experience a continuous pull on the throttle, which varies with the speed of the airplane. I personally just don't like the way they work or feel. If you don't like the commercial handles, consider 2.4 ghz radio operated throttle. Although the final vote hasn't taken place yet, it looks like they will be legal for competition starting next year. You can simply hold a pistol grip transmitter in your left hand, and fly normally with your favorite handle in your right hand. This also makes it nice for starting the engine because you can bring the transmitter with you instead of leaving it at the handle.

Joe Just

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 09:17:32 AM »
Several years ago I made a run of 3-line handles baised on "Kelly's" handle as featured in his Hellcat article in MA.  I still have two or three left. In researching profile plans it is evident that Sturdybuilt did not have a complete monopoly on bell cranks and handles.  As to the proposed inclusion of "Radio Control" to Carrier use, I will pass on that one.
Joe

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 09:40:53 AM »
Hard to know what you might have seen, but let me give my  2 cents. The commercial 3 line handles are designed to always have equal tension on all 3 lines. You don't have to hold the throttle in position against line tension. All the home-made handles I have seen experience a continuous pull on the throttle, which varies with the speed of the airplane. I personally just don't like the way they work or feel. If you don't like the commercial handles, consider 2.4 ghz radio operated throttle. Although the final vote hasn't taken place yet, it looks like they will be legal for competition starting next year. You can simply hold a pistol grip transmitter in your left hand, and fly normally with your favorite handle in your right hand. This also makes it nice for starting the engine because you can bring the transmitter with you instead of leaving it at the handle.

Bill,

Why 2.4?

I have two radios and I see no reason why they won't do what the 2.4 does?

I am looking into the "Any Link."

Charles
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 09:53:36 AM »
Are not allowed to use RC rigs in control line if the crystal is still in them.  The latest in radio is opening up a whole new world.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline john vlna

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 10:14:42 AM »
Allan,

There was a real nice handle published in MA Sept 1995, page 46. I built one. It is all aluminum, but doesn't work like the Roberts design. It is quite useful though if you can tolerate a bit of interaction with the throttle and elevator, and it is strong  I use it with the old two bellcrank method originally published in AAM. You can access the MA archives in the members only section on the AMA site. If you have trouble finding the article let me know I'll copy it and send it to you.probably not until after the NATS though. I also have the AAm article. 

John

Offline ooffy

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 12:57:07 PM »
OK, here is a handle option to consider. I have a Sew Mew model someone built about twenty years ago (using engine era dating - a K&B S WART 40) that has a interesting control system. It is a two line system with the up line going to a twist torque unit. I would use a handle that allows the flier to twist the top line for throttle. I have not seen a handle for this system and can imagine a couple of was of built one.
Ron Bennett

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 03:00:32 PM »
That system was published in a late 50's magazine, and was definitely home made. If I can find the article I will scan it and post it.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 04:16:26 PM »
Here's something that I cooked up one day, before I realized that I barely have time for picking up CL stunt, much less carrier.

It answers the question "how can I make a balanced handle with a minimum of parts?"

It's shown in the mid-throttle position.  There's three moving parts: the up-line arm, with the throttle lever on it, the down-line arm, and the throttle-line link.  The up- and down-line arms pivot on the frame, the throttle-line arm pivots on the other two arms.

There will be slight interaction between elevator and throttle, because the throttle link tilts as you pull throttle in or out.  I think that there's probably way too little mechanical advantage between the throttle lever and the throttle line movement -- you could extend the down-line arm up instead, but then you may be too insensitive.

So, anyway -- it's a thought, but not fully developed and not even reduced to practice.  About the only thing that I'll say that it does do is show a mechanical arrangement that'll give you zero net force on the throttle lever (at mid throttle) given equal line tensions.
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Joe Just

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 05:33:20 PM »
I just got a call about R/C transmission for throttle control as is being voted on now.  Question: (and i paraphrase)  R/C admission into control line will obsolete current equipment. I (the person who called me) always was of the belief that the AMA could not accept any rule change that would obsolete current equipment"

Is this guy right? I don't know.  I do know that all current records will be abolished if R/C transmission is allowed.  Is this what we want? Will we end up with 2 or 3 new sub events in Carrier. We already have 13 seperate events for the 40 mor 50 guys that are listed in the "Top 20" within the NCS.

Will cross proposals firm up the proposals in Carrier?  What do you guys think?
Joe

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 06:04:48 PM »
Aaagh!  Not rules!!!

On the one hand, it's just another bit of techno-dinglewazzery that one may choose to use or not.

On the other -- do two thicker lines and a radio really give you that much advantage over three thinner lines (or two insulated lines)?

And, finally -- I don't fly carrier, and if I did I'd do it for the reason you give in your tag line.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline john vlna

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 06:05:07 PM »
Joe,
I think I know the same guy. I am for 2.4Ghz, if it resets records so be it. Look at all the technology we now routinely use today that was not available years ago, such as the internet we are using this minute. Why be a stick in the mud, embrace new technology.
John

Offline john vlna

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 06:07:23 PM »
Back to handles, here are some pics of the one I mentioned, including the kind of Bc hook up it uses.

Joe Just

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 07:10:27 PM »
Joe,
 Why be a stick in the mud, embrace new technology.
John

John, I still haven't made up my mind yet, just asking questions.  As you know, my main thrust for the past 6 years has been encouraging any and all to give Carrier a try. If in the end radio transmitted signals for throttle work only increases particapation then I will be all for it.  However, recently witnessing flying with a small transmitter in the guys left hand and a two line handle in his right hand resulted in serious out of control crashes at a flying site in the Tri-Cities, WA.  I think I will at least for the forseeable future keep my 3-line stuff as is.  Hope top get a picture or two of the 3-line handle I was building and offering.  Perhaps tomorrow.
Joe

Offline john vlna

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 07:19:47 PM »
Joe,
I think it is feasible to put the 2.4ghz stuff into a handle as I do with my electric control up the wire today. This winter I intend to give the idea a look. I have a 2.4ghz heli unit, but may start simpler with a 3 ch car unit.
The attached pic is of one of my u/tronics handles. All components are in the handle, not trying to use two hands which is more difficult.
john

Joe Just

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2012, 07:44:48 PM »
John, as you know, my right hand is really butchered, so when I decided to re-invent the wheel i came up with a handle that had a "trigger" for normal hands an d a "Push-Pull" bar for my left hand.  Here are some pictures of what i came up with.

Offline bill bischoff

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 07:47:35 PM »
I just got a call about R/C transmission for throttle control as is being voted on now.  Question: (and i paraphrase)  R/C admission into control line will obsolete current equipment. I (the person who called me) always was of the belief that the AMA could not accept any rule change that would obsolete current equipment"

Is this guy right? I don't know.  I do know that all current records will be abolished if R/C transmission is allowed.  Is this what we want? Will we end up with 2 or 3 new sub events in Carrier. We already have 13 seperate events for the 40 mor 50 guys that are listed in the "Top 20" within the NCS.




Why will 2.4 ghz require new records or make old equipment obsolete? Compare it to currently acceptable electronic control systems. People have figured out how to avoid the big fat insulated lines, so for all intents you can already fly on the same size lines as you would with 2.4 ghz. The only difference is sending pulses through the lines vs. sending RF through the air. Performance-wise, it's no different from what is already legal.

Joe Just

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2012, 07:53:17 PM »
So, what with my right "trigger' finger a total loss. How would be the best way to fly with a normal 2-line handle handle in my right hand and somehow using my left hand to opperate the throttle.  Is there a way to have the transmitter on my belt?
Joe

PS the guy that called me is not who you think it might be.

Offline john vlna

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Re: 3-line handle options
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2012, 08:20:33 PM »
Joe,
It seems to me that you could do it from your belt, or make a two hand 'handle' to vary the throttle. I have done the belt thing, and have seen others do it. I have a 72mhz system that I hang from my belt, doable, I just preffer everything in my hand, and of course i can't use the 72Mhz if anyone is at the RC field next door.

For multiple functions you have to use the other hand anyway, and with the controls mounted on/in the handle it is easier to see and coordinate.

The attached is a pic of a handle I made quickly for a model that works better two handed. I always meant to put the trigger inside, but moved on to a new design instead

John


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