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Author Topic: 2.4 throttle notes  (Read 1565 times)

Offline john vlna

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2.4 throttle notes
« on: August 05, 2013, 09:45:09 PM »
I am in the process of setting up a servo/2.4ghz throttle on a plane. Since I do a lot of electric flying I have a supply of Lipo batteries on hand. I decided to use a 2 cell which is a 7.4v battery. To drop the voltage I am using a UBEC. This is a device which takes power from the battery and isolates the esc in an electric model. In fact some esc's have an isolator and won't power a receiver and servos making  a UBEC  necessary.

The point is that the UBEC I was using delivers 3.3 volts at 3 amps. That seems low but everything works fine and the plane has three engines so the servo has a pretty heavy load. (No it is not a carrier plane)The receiver also works fine at that voltage.

I realize a lot of people not into electrics probably don't want to fool with Lipos, but this seems to indicate that one could use something like two AAA cells to run a servo/2.4 throttle setup.

My next step is to try that. This would save some weight vice the normal 4.8- 6 volt receiver pack.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 11:02:25 PM »
In the Hellcat (from another thread) I'm using the cheapo HK radio that you have mentioned having.  Those receivers are spec'd at 6.5 volts max., and I was using a 2 cell lipo with a BEC.  Decided to try the 2 cell, 700 mah LiFe battery which would be a nominal 6.6 volts while running.  Long story short, I got rid of the BEC and just use the LiFe straight into the receiver.  The servo is plenty fast and there is no heating or glitching to the receiver that I can tell.  Of course, if your receiver is spec'd at much less, then you may (probably "will") want to keep using a BEC, so no point in changing to the LiFe's.

Out of curiosity, why did you get a 3.3 v. BEC?  I guess if it works, then it works. But I have 4.8v and 6.0v stuff pretty much ingrained in my head after all these years and can't even conjure up a reason to design a 3.3 volt receiver unless its for some indoor RC that uses a single LiPo for a battery.

Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 07:02:33 AM »
One other thought -- does 3.3v.  make your servo's noticeably slower, or are there '3.3 volt' servo's?  I know that one of my first impressions with the 2.4gHz setup was that the servo's were essentially real-time in tracking the throttle position.  It was the equal of a mechanical setup in terms of throttle reaction even at 5volts.  That was one of my initial concerns in converting to the radio, but it was a seamless transition.  I realize that in a scale plane, it maybe isn't as much of a concern, but do you notice any performance effects?
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline john vlna

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 08:04:05 AM »
Mike
I can't detect any difference in servo speed. The servo is a cheap generic, no specs for it, but no problem driving three throttles at the same time. Apparently there isa wide tolerance range with these things.

John

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 08:19:43 AM »
Decided to try the 2 cell, 700 mah LiFe battery which would be a nominal 6.6 volts while running.

Just as a point of interest, "nominal" voltage doesn't mean much with batteries.  The Tenergy HLCF26650P-2000 cell has a nominal voltage of 3.2V on the data sheet.  Discharging at 1C from a fresh charge, it starts at 3.6V/cell, and doesn't drop to 3.2V/cell until it's 60% discharged.

The voltage falls off much more quickly at higher discharge rates.

So you're probably running the receiver over the specified voltage, and just lucking out as far as not damaging it (or, you're shortening the life of the thing and don't know it).
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2013, 08:46:56 AM »

So you're probably running the receiver over the specified voltage, and just lucking out as far as not damaging it (or, you're shortening the life of the thing and don't know it).

Yes, by about 1.5% IF the batteries are at rated voltage.  By my measurements, all three that I bought are at or under an actual 6.6 volts after removing from the charger and letting them sit for an hour.  Depending on the voltmeter I use and the temperature of the room I'm in and how long they have actually been sitting and .... and .... and ....

My point is that the "6.6 volts nominal" and the "6.5 volts maximum" are BOTH computed values using averages and engineering deratings.  In the real world, it's close enough.  Those packs are sold as receiver packs and come with the warning to check your receiver spec's.  That is why I told John that if his receiver was spec'd at much less than 6.5v, to stick with the UBEC.

The receiver is going to have an internal voltage regulator anyway, that provides an operating voltage to its circuitry.  I seriously doubt that that regulator is going to go up in smoke from providing a 1.5% overvoltage on Vin.  And if it does, well it's a $5 receiver. 


Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Online Tim Wescott

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2013, 09:26:06 AM »
Yes, by about 1.5% IF the batteries are at rated voltage.  By my measurements, all three that I bought are at or under an actual 6.6 volts after removing from the charger and letting them sit for an hour.

Your batteries don't act like the data sheet for my batteries says and -- hey, wait, that's pretty indirect.

I was kinda wondering of the data sheet I was looking at didn't start right off of charge.  Batteries of any kind usually relax a bit after charging.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2013, 10:22:57 AM »
These are sold by Hobbyking as receiver packs   (for like $2.65 @)  :

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14075__ZIPPY_Flightmax_700mAh_6_6V_5C_LiFePo4_Reciever_Pack.html

This is the description given:

A perfect reciever size battery to replace those warn out old fashioned NiCD and NiMh reciever packs. Although only 700mAh LiFePo4 batteries have a supeioir useable voltage range when compared with NiXX batteries.

This pack will work with most receivers on the market without the need for a UBEC*

Specs:
Capacity: 700mAh
Voltage: 2S1P / 2 Cell / 6.6V
Discharge: 5C Constant / 10C Burst
Weight: 41g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 53mm x 30mm x 15mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: Standa JR Servo plug

* Always check the suggested input voltage of your reciever before using LiFePo4 batteries.


The receiver specs are just given as:

"Power   4.5-6.5 VDC (1.5 volts x 4)"


It isn't given as an "absolute maximum" as you often see in semiconductor data sheets.

I figure there is some room for a fudge factor somewhere in there.    n~

« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:51:42 AM by Mike Anderson »
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline john vlna

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 10:35:56 AM »
Mike

I don't know why this ubec is 3.3 volts, I thought they all were nominally 5v. I got it at hobbypartz, by mistake. Apparently some rx are ok at this voltage, including mine. They actually  have some as low as 1.5v and as high as 9v

I thought it interesting since people not into li batteries could possibly use  2 AAA cells

Online bill bischoff

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2013, 10:44:48 AM »
Also remember that Ni-Cd's come off the charger at about 1.4-1.5 v per cell. You wouldn't think twice about using a 5 cell Ni-Cd on a radio, so a 2 cell Li-Fe isn't going to hurt anything.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2013, 10:55:38 AM »
It just occurred to me that this whole thread was sparked by my curiosity over John's 3.3 volt UBEC (which I still can't figure out a use for).  He said he is using a 2 cell Lipo, through a 3.3 volt UBEC as a receiver pack.

Basically, he's wasting one of the cells -- just split the pack in two, throw away the UBEC and run on 3.7 volts.  Even lighter and cheaper.

My reason for getting rid of the UBEC and using the LiFe's was to keep the servo speed up for better throttle response.  Very important in a Carrier plane, maybe not so much in a Scale plane.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline john vlna

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Re: 2.4 throttle notes
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2013, 03:22:23 PM »
Mike
Your right, I actually got the ubec for using with an opto esc, just found by accident that it also drives the servo.

Since it works so well I will probably use a 1 cell lipo. Weight =almost nothing.


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