Author Topic: .15 Carrier at the Nationals? (Read 1157 times)

bdt-m · « **on:** July 21, 2023, 07:25:55 PM »

Simple question, possibly the answer is not simple....

.15 carrier can be any .15, Front Intake, mufflers allowed, however: NO muffler pressure or any form of pressure, suction only. I understand locally rules may be slightly different.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2023, 08:48:01 PM »

Muffler pressure is OK for both 15 and AMA Profile now.

With unlimited electric mixed in with piston 15's it would hardly be sporting to suppress the engines in any way.

john vlna · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2023, 09:12:54 AM »

electric 15 is not unlimited. Model ready to fly max weight is 2.5lbs includes battery etc. Lines are .015 if using two. .012 for 3 line
At the NATS they used to fly sportsman 15 and expert to even out competition. since 15 is a speed limit event (70 MPH max), mixing electric and glow is not going to give an advantage to either form of propulsion. Winning is dependent on slow speed and landing points, since either glow or electric can hit 70.

Terry Mitchell · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2023, 07:11:06 PM »

well you can hit 70 mph with a .15 carrier I held the NW record for years hitting over 70 mph with a rossi .15 side exhaust in a scratched built king fisher and to be honest i dont think carrier should have electrics involved in anyway motor,throttle or other wise...all carrier should be flown with a 3 line bell crank and a glow engine and lets see who the better flyers are. That's my opinion.

bdt-m · « **Reply #4 on:** July 29, 2023, 10:56:30 AM »

Quote from: Terry Mitchell on July 28, 2023, 07:11:06 PM

well you can hit 70 mph with a .15 carrier I held the NW record for years hitting over 70 mph with a rossi .15 side exhaust in a scratched built king fisher and to be honest i dont think carrier should have electrics involved in anyway motor,throttle or other wise...all carrier should be flown with a 3 line bell crank and a glow engine and lets see who the better flyers are. That's my opinion.

I agree, carrier should be a 3-line control & throttle system for all classes, and IC engines only. The reasoning put forth that 3-lines is complex and hard to setup is a non-started in my book.

Separate Electric classes are fine, allowing 2 lines + electric for throttle is also fine in these separate electric classes, just leave the traditional AMA carrier classes 3-line control only.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** July 29, 2023, 11:08:25 AM »

Even though I still like carrier the way it used to be I think the people going electric have to in order to be able to fly carrier at their home base. I agree carrier and electric should be separate classes. Just like class I and II scale should be difeent classes but some areas combine them because of low entries. I also didn't like it when the profile event was started to encourage people to try carrier and it was decided to let people enter both scale and profile. That practically killed carrier in my area. But, what can I say now I can't fly competitively any more.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #6 on:** July 29, 2023, 12:58:29 PM »

This is an interesting topic.

There is no such thing as a electric 1/2A or an electric 15. These are piston engine classes and small or light electric setups are a whole different thing. Having attended the NCS dinner a couple of times it is crystal clear who was the ONE man whole jammed electric into 15 Carrier and Skyray. It's tough get a 15 or a 40 to do the 70/75 speed limit and still hover at low speed. But electrics do this with ease.

I have 3-line 15 plane that I could use if there was a rules change. But I favor the 2.4 speed control based on money and availablity.

At current pricing a 3-line system costs over $120 per airplane.

2.4 has a front cost of $40 plus $10 per model and you can buy it on line instantly.

A beginner can get 2.4 working a lot faster than 3-line. Thus 2.4 is more open to new flyers.

bdt-m · « **Reply #7 on:** August 14, 2023, 03:12:52 PM »

I really don't see the complications of a 3-line system, it's very basic. If 2.4 is that much easier, then I see the merit in it for new entrants, however; I am not inclined to view rules-requirements on simplicity only.

I guess I am old school....

Paul Smith · « **Reply #8 on:** August 14, 2023, 04:55:19 PM »

I have several models of BOTH 3-line and 2.4 system. They both work.

At this time it is no problem to buy a 2.4 system. 3-line is an expensive challenge.

At contest where you need to fly four events in one day you would need four complete 3-line systems at a cost of $500. You can set up four 2.4 systems for about $120.

Kelly Hite · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2023, 04:17:10 PM »

So...4 complete 3-line systems is $500, that's $125 each...got it.
New from Brodak... 3 line handle $84, belcrank $32, line set $27 = $143... each, plus tax and shipping so your a little light but close enough.
Now, four 2.4 systems can be set up for "about" $120...that's $30 each?

john vlna · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2023, 07:31:18 AM »

Pretty close Kelly. Of course like everything every time you shop prices have gone up. I started into electrics in 2008. Back then 2.4Ghz was not legal and control was through the lines. Since 2.4Ghz was made legal, I have always used the cheapest radios I can find. Currently the one I use is https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbykingr-tmhk-gt2b-3ch-2-4ghz-transmitter-and-receiver-w-rechargable-li-ion-battery-1.html It has doubled in price in the last 2-3 years, now $40. I like it because it is 3 channel and is very reliable. Once you have a Transmitter all you need is additional receivers and servos and an onboard battery. So I haven't added it up but $30 or less sounds about right for multiple planes after your initial investment. In any case cheaper than 3 line if you are starting in without handles etc.

Air Ministry . · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2023, 07:40:33 AM »

an you use FOUR .15's ? .

Paul Smith · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2023, 08:29:06 AM »

A two engine F7F Tigercat dominated Carrier for about two years.
Multi-engine was effectively banned by a quickie "emergency" rules change that mandated a lethal penalty if ALL engines did not run throughout the low speed phase of flight.
It's hard enough to keep one engine running through low speed, let alone two. The winning Tigercat cut the outer engine means of a small fuel tank. According the plans and magazine article the inboard engine was allowed to run a full speed and the tip weight was seven ounces, thereby enabling some degree of hanging.

One-time stunts like landing a C-130, an OV-10 or a Piper Cub on a carrier, do, in fact, qualify the design per current rules, but they are a far stretch from intent of carrier-designed.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2023, 10:27:36 AM »

Watching these videos made me wonder what the heart rate was on the pilot and crew. Had to have a lot of faith in aircraft and the crews that maintained them. Also the also the crew of the moving landing strip. If some one could come up with one of these 4 engined planes that could meet the weight rule and take off and land with out the use of the cable would be number one in my book esp[ecially if they kept all for engine running. I vaguelly remember my firsrt successful model navy carrier landing. I almost collapsed when the plane came to a stop and that big Red Head 60 was still idleling. That has been so many years ago. The only place that combo didn't place was the Nationals in 1964 in Dallas . But, it seems no one is really trying to push the envelope without trying to change the rules. The only way to win is to get a dood combo and practice. That was my down fall as I did not practice that much.

Author Topic: .15 Carrier at the Nationals? (Read 1157 times)

bdt-m

.15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Paul Smith

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

john vlna

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Terry Mitchell

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

bdt-m

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

john e. holliday

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Paul Smith

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

bdt-m

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Paul Smith

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Kelly Hite

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

john vlna

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Air Ministry .

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

Paul Smith

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?

john e. holliday

Re: .15 Carrier at the Nationals?