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Author Topic: Z Bend in M.W.  (Read 1092 times)

Online Dennis Saydak

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Z Bend in M.W.
« on: March 01, 2020, 08:34:23 PM »
How do you make a tight Z bend in wire that is larger than 1/16" diameter? I have Hobbico Z Bend pliers and several types of wire benders. There is always too much space between the first and second bends I make. The hobbico pliers are only good for 1/16" wire.
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2020, 09:18:00 PM »
   On 1/16" and smaller, I use a pair of lineman's pliers and can make a smaller and tighter Z bend than any special made tool on the market. On anything larger, you DON"T use a Z bend. SOme kit makers had hydraulic benders that could do it with a special die. I remember seeing the set up Glenn SIG made for their kit landing gear and such and it was pretty cool scrath built machine. On anything lager than 1/16" I just use a washer soldered to the inside and a wheel collar on the outside. Another approach is to not use any bends, and use 4-40 ball links instead at each junction in the control linkage.
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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2020, 09:23:50 PM »
Dennis,

One standard method is to make the two bends in different planes and then twist the short segment between the bends to get the entire deal back into one plane. This means you don't need a Z-bender or really narrow pliers that are more rigid than anything you can buy. It works fine and has been done that way forever.

Another technique is to anneal tempered wire, such as music wire, before bending. This makes it easier, and will allow tighter bends without cracking. If you are using a z-bend, it is likely that you are putting it thru a nylon horn or perhaps a bellcrank, and probably on a smaller plane. If so, the lesser hardness of the wire is not likely to be a big deal.

For example, you should be able to put tight z-bends into 3/32" threaded pushrod stock. I do it all the time.

Sorry I don't have photos of the sequence, but if it doesn't make sense, I can try a better explanation.

The Divot

Online Dennis Saydak

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 08:26:48 AM »
Thanks Dave. That's exactly what I did only I didn't have to have both bends in the same plane. I just needed a short space so that the pushrod wouldn't fall out of the bell crank and also not hit the upper wing spar when rotating. I didn't want to solder a washer in case the heat melted the bell crank.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 03:12:33 PM by Dennis Saydak »
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Steve Berry

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 08:50:18 AM »
Based on that pic, I believe that particular type is called a "Russian" z-bend. If I remember correctly (a true gamble on some days) the Russian combat guys would use that type on their models to allow fast switch out of controls when needed.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 12:15:36 PM »
I have switched over to ball links on my pushrods, but before that I would make a plywood plate to hold the push rod in place.   Of course the plate is also part of the bell crank mount.   I do plates top and bottom with bolts long enough to mount the bell crank.  If you do a search you may find some shots of my method. D>K
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Online Dennis Saydak

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 03:14:35 PM »
I have switched over to ball links on my pushrods, but before that I would make a plywood plate to hold the push rod in place.   Of course the plate is also part of the bell crank mount.   I do plates top and bottom with bolts long enough to mount the bell crank.  If you do a search you may find some shots of my method. D>K

John, I often do use ball links but this is only a JR. Nobler and I'm trying to keep it simple and as close to the plan as possible.
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 06:23:35 PM »
Dennis,

With one more step, you can turn your pushrod end into a z-bend if you want to. Just twist the short segment between the bends until it is in the same plane as the rod itself.

It is worth noting that if the fit is loose, then twisting the pushrod as shown in the photo may allow it to pop out. A straightened (all in a plane) z-bend will not. This becomes a "feature" as noted by Steve if you want to get it apart without swinging the entire rod--which would be impossible in a built-up deal like the Jr.

The other thing that can be done and works fine for most sport planes is to bend just a 90 on the end. Then arrange the bellcrank so that there is just a small clearance gap to the plywood platform which then traps the rod. Then pull up on the end poking thru the 'crank and install a wheel collar on it. You can cut a slight notch in the rod for the setscrew to seat in. A little blue Loctite and it's not going anywhere. If the collar ever did come loose, the pushrod is still trapped between the 'crank and the plywood platform. You can wipe the wear area on the platform with thin CyA for durability.

Good luck with your Lil' Nobler!

The Divot

Online Dennis Saydak

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2020, 09:16:01 AM »
Dave, I'm not concerned in the least with the possibility of the push rod twisting out. It is a tight “pop in” fit in the crank hole (thick flange) plus the bend into the flap horn provides additional stability. There is minimal clearance between the bottom rod bend and the plywood plate so it can't be twisted out unless the bell crank itself is lifted up.

There isn't enough space between the bottom of the bell crank and the plywood plate to allow the push rod to come up from underneath  the plate without jamming on the lead out when the crank rotates.  Also the crank needs to be relatively in line with the rib L.O. holes. Here's a shot of the final install, which I'm happy with for a .15 powered sport model.. PS; I use Tom Morris & Windy control system components for larger models.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 10:48:34 AM by Dennis Saydak »
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2020, 10:30:18 AM »
Here's a shot of the final install, which I'm happy with for a .15 powered sport model.. PS; I use Tom Morris & Windy control system components for larger models.
Something that may add to the life of the controls.  On the flap horn you might add about 1/16 thickness JB Weld (the black stuff) to each side and re-drill the holes.  Metal to metal wears very fast with the vibration of an IC.  The additional thickness will also keep the pushrod straight at the bellcrank.  Personally I would not use a "Z" bend on anything over an 1/2A.  They force you into using a thin bellcrank or a nylon one where you can squeeze the wire bend through the hole.    I like mine my bellcranks thick and bushed.  If you have a floor you can always use it to keep the wire from coming out and solder a washer on top.  I have always had the pushrod come out the bottom on these thin wing types and bent the ends of the bellcrank up a bit to give the leadouts clearance.  If there needed to be a "Z" it was in the pushrod where it comes out of the wing. I doubt that I am in the majority here but, I have never had a control system done this way wear out either.

Ken
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 02:32:17 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2020, 02:13:25 PM »
  Well, for a sport model, the "keep" that you used on the flap control horn would have worked on the bell crank also. Just have the end come up from the bottom with enough length so that it would hit the bell crank mount before it would fall out. Then add the keeper, set so that the push rod clears to bell crank mount and does not rub. Have just a slight curve to the keeper with just enough tension so as to not cause any binding. Make sure nothing hangs up on the structure around it during full deflection both ways. That would last forever and easy to install.
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Online Dennis Saydak

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2020, 05:13:58 PM »
  Well, for a sport model, the "keep" that you used on the flap control horn would have worked on the bell crank also. Just have the end come up from the bottom with enough length so that it would hit the bell crank mount before it would fall out. Then add the keeper, set so that the push rod clears to bell crank mount and does not rub. Have just a slight curve to the keeper with just enough tension so as to not cause any binding. Make sure nothing hangs up on the structure around it during full deflection both ways. That would last forever and easy to install.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

Yes that's exactly what I did. Controls are totally free (no binding whatsoever. Thanks guys.  H^^
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race.....you find the rats just get faster! MAAC 13120L

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Z Bend in M.W.
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2020, 06:59:55 PM »
 ' Z ' bend ;

If your cruel , and the wires good , you do a right angle ' S ' bend , then straighten the end in line .  VD~

But you test a few to see theyre not crap .


AS IN , bend a right angle , in the vice . LOWER the thickness of the leg your after . Belt the top over sideways, wrench it round straight . In Line .
Some  wire dislikes this treatment . Somes fine . De Tempering before & retempering after  may help brittle stuff. Perhaps .


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