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Author Topic: Wing Loading Help  (Read 6263 times)

Offline Tim Stagg

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Wing Loading Help
« on: August 08, 2008, 10:48:52 AM »
Hi,

This may be an over asked question but I can't seem to find the information anywhere. Can anyone provide at least a guildline for proper wing loading of a stunt model. I am referbishing a 60 size stunter that is based on the SV11 wing. I believe that the model is on the heavy side but I have no clue what heavy is.

Thanks for the help.

Tim
Tim Stagg

Offline Bill Gruby

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2008, 11:53:07 AM »
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Offline Tim Stagg

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 12:06:06 PM »
Thanks BIll

I should have better explained my question, my apologies, I understand how to calculate the wing loading, I am just not sure what a good wing loading should be for a 60 size stunter.

Example 12oz /sq foot, 16oz /sq foot, ??

TIm
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2008, 12:35:00 PM »
Hi,

This may be an over asked question but I can't seem to find the information anywhere. Can anyone provide at least a guildline for proper wing loading of a stunt model. I am referbishing a 60 size stunter that is based on the SV11 wing. I believe that the model is on the heavy side but I have no clue what heavy is.

Thanks for the help.

Tim


HI Tim

If the wing is built as I designed it with the same basic tip shape,and flap size, you can  have a range of 60 to 70 ounces for it to fly well
A really light SV-11 is 60 ounces, normal range is 64 ounces but very many are 68 ounces

Randy

Offline Tim Stagg

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2008, 12:16:27 PM »
Thanks Randy, Right now it is 74 Oz and I am working on finding ways to take weight out. The fuse was build very sturdy and I believe I can reduce much of the weight there.
Tim Stagg

Offline Motorman

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2015, 07:25:52 PM »
Still didn't answer the question, how many Oz per Sq in?  If my plane has 600 sq in what is the perfect weight?

MM

Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2015, 10:29:13 AM »
I've been reading up on this subject lately and looking at various posted figures as well as published wing loadings for some good stunt aircraft like the Nobler and Primary force, it looks like the acceptable range is about 10 to 14 oz per square foot with the mean, 12/foot about right.

So I have a Vector 40 that comes in at 50 oz. With a wing area of 536 in/sq, that works out to 13.4 lb/ft sq. A little on the heavy side which my buddy, Ty, had predicted.
My Brodak P-40 weighs in at 53 oz. With a wing area of 560 in/sq, that works out to 13.6 lb/ft sq. Now I know we someone posted that they cannot afford 3 oz! If I can drop the P-40 weight 3 oz to 50, the wing loading drops to a better 12.8lb/ft sq!
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Bill

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2015, 02:35:38 PM »
I've been reading up on this subject lately and looking at various posted figures as well as published wing loadings for some good stunt aircraft like the Nobler and Primary force, it looks like the acceptable range is about 10 to 14 oz per square foot with the mean, 12/foot about right.

So I have a Vector 40 that comes in at 50 oz. With a wing area of 536 in/sq, that works out to 13.4 lb/ft sq. A little on the heavy side which my buddy, Ty, had predicted.
My Brodak P-40 weighs in at 53 oz. With a wing area of 560 in/sq, that works out to 13.6 lb/ft sq. Now I know we someone posted that they cannot afford 3 oz! If I can drop the P-40 weight 3 oz to 50, the wing loading drops to a better 12.8lb/ft sq!

     I can't take the time to look it up right now, but there is a post here somewhere that lists the wing loading of NATs winners, they are all well above 12 oz/square foot. That's possible because they use modern engines.

   12 oz/square foot was the old standard with 4-2 break engines. Many were well less than that, and at the time, unlike now, you really couldn't build them too lightly.

   Brett

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2015, 04:00:26 PM »
That's possible because they use modern engines.

Mine's because I use modern paint.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2015, 06:17:56 PM »
Mine's because I use modern paint.
uh Howard,, Modern paint wont make it heavy,, TO MUCH modern paint will make it heavy,,, S?P
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Offline Curare

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2015, 10:22:16 PM »
I do like coming into threads like this, and dropping a hand grenade or two..

While I don't argue that for a 600 sq model, 12oz/foot is a good point to shoot for, but experience has shown that a smaller model would fly like a dog at 12/ozft, and a correspondingly larger model would be a floaty feather at 12 oz/ft. which is why cubic wing loading may be more appropriate for discussing models of various sized, (from 200sq in to 700).


http://www.theampeer.org/CWL/reynolds.htm
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2015, 11:16:40 PM »
I do like coming into threads like this, and dropping a hand grenade or two..

While I don't argue that for a 600 sq model, 12oz/foot is a good point to shoot for, but experience has shown that a smaller model would fly like a dog at 12/ozft, and a correspondingly larger model would be a floaty feather at 12 oz/ft. which is why cubic wing loading may be more appropriate for discussing models of various sized, (from 200sq in to 700).

  Cubic wing loading has no real basis in math or engineering, it's more-or-less a vaguely interesting coincidence that it comes out about like we expect.

    Brett

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 01:58:41 AM »
So I can conclude that mathless or not if it coincides with expectations then it qualifies as answering the original post, that is it is of help?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 02:31:19 AM by Chris Wilson »
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 02:53:53 PM »
So I can conclude that mathless or not if it coincides with expectations then it qualifies as answering the original post, that is it is of help?

Randy Smith, the SV-11's designer, answered the question, which was about the SV-11 wing.  He knows this wing well.

Cubic wing loading, whatever that is, reminds me of a story.  I worked at an airplane factory where the bean counters used parametric models with no scientific basis.   Usually these were cost models extrapolated to evalute design alternatives.  A worst-case example was their calculation that avionics is worth so many dollars per pound, hence one should be willing to pay more for a heavy electronic box than a lighter one that performed the same function. 
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Offline Bill Johnson

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2015, 04:50:58 AM »
I do like coming into threads like this, and dropping a hand grenade or two..

While I don't argue that for a 600 sq model, 12oz/foot is a good point to shoot for, but experience has shown that a smaller model would fly like a dog at 12/ozft, and a correspondingly larger model would be a floaty feather at 12 oz/ft..........

This is no different then any other discussion of aerodynamics. Yes, there's a lot, and I mean a lot of variables when you're talking wing designs and how it influences wing loading but it's a fact that as the size of the airplane increases, the wing loading increases.

Right now, we're dealing with 600-700 in/sq wings with a loading of around .75#/ft/sq. A Piper Cub runs about 5.5#/ft/sq, a King Air about 32#/ft/sq, and a Boeing 737 about 110#/ft/sq.

So, maybe if someone was to graph out an average wing loading of model stunt aircraft from 1/2A up to a 60 size plane, might we get a general idea of what a good target weight would be if not specified by the designer?
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Bill

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 10:29:07 AM »

So, maybe if someone was to graph out an average wing loading of model stunt aircraft from 1/2A up to a 60 size plane, might we get a general idea of what a good target weight would be if not specified by the designer?

   We already know the answer, and the target weight for a 650-700 ounce airplane of conventional design using a tuned pipe engine is about 13-14 ounces/sq ft. It was 12 oz square foot in the 4-2 break era.

    Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 11:30:50 AM »
My 480 square inch Fancherized Twister weighs 53 ounces, dry.  That works out to nearly 16 oz/ft2.  Probably more at takeoff.

And, while Paul Walker does not shake in his boots when I step into the circle at local contests, I do usually manage to come in one or two places off of the bottom in Expert.
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 03:48:57 PM »
My 480 square inch Fancherized Twister weighs 53 ounces, dry.  That works out to nearly 16 oz/ft2.  Probably more at takeoff.

And, while Paul Walker does not shake in his boots when I step into the circle at local contests, I do usually manage to come in one or two places off of the bottom in Expert.

  Target, not maximum allowable. There will be another airplane above 16 oz/square foot at the NWR and it will be competitive.

    Brett

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 04:05:59 PM »
  Target, not maximum allowable. There will be another airplane above 16 oz/square foot at the NWR and it will be competitive.

Oddly enough, 53 ounces was not my target weight on that Twister.  But the fact that I didn't start out with a target weight and aim for it probably contributed to the overall portliness of the plane.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Curare

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Re: Wing Loading Help
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 08:47:14 PM »
Pipers,, King Airs and 737's are not required to do loops, square or other wise let alone climb vertically. Their wing loading can be higher as all they do do is climb out, level flight and land, but look at the wing loading of a full size acrobatic aircraft like a Citabria or Extra 300 etc.

I inherited a 590 sq inch monster that started out as a modified Shark 45. It was so heavy that the take offs and landings were 40 pointers by default.  But the loops etc., were really bad. I stripped it, sanded, carved and removed a lot of castor soaked balsa, recovered and flew it. Better, but still too heavy. Saved the bell crank. LL~



SBACH 342 - Wing area = 121 ft2 gross weight = 1874 lb = wingloading = 15lb/ft2,
EXTRA 300L - Wing area: 10.44 m² (112.4 ft²) = Loaded weight: 952 kg (2095 lb) =  Wing loading = 18.7lb/ft3.


Greg Kowalski
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