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Author Topic: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2  (Read 1975 times)

Offline Mike Alimov

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SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« on: September 09, 2019, 02:53:54 AM »
This method is for a two-piece wing.  Original ARF/ARC fuselage replaced with a profile to satisfy BOM requirements.
The wing hard points use the original hardwood spar joiners supplied in the kit, milled down for the thickness of the aluminum tabs.  Use 6061 or 7075 aluminum, thickness anywhere from 1/16" to 1/8".  Tested on electric version only! 

(more pictures below)

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2019, 02:56:36 AM »
I recommend using leadouts about 4" longer than usual, to allow easy attachment to the bellcrank.

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2019, 03:02:50 AM »
We use #4 sheet metal screws about 3/4" long, driven into the hardwood spar blocks through the metal tabs.  You may want to drip some thin CA into the wood after the thread had been established to reinforce the wood.
The system has had hundreds of flights and dozens of assemble-disassemble cycles, with no problems or failures.  Adds less than 1 oz of weight overall.

Having the plane come apart makes building, finishing, trimming, transporting, storage, repair and maintenance much easier. 

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2019, 02:50:51 PM »
It's such a gorgeous airplane that we added a runner up concourse award to Luca at the FCM! H^^
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 05:13:04 PM »
How do those short little tabs add sufficient strength for the wing? I am bewildered. It seems the wing would fail, but apparantly it doesn't. I love the removable belcrank wires.
david

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 05:31:49 PM »
How do those short little tabs add sufficient strength for the wing? I am bewildered. It seems the wing would fail, but apparantly it doesn't. I love the removable belcrank wires.
david

First, aluminum is stronger than wood.

Second, Mike is calling out 6061 or 7074, both of which are good strong aluminum alloys -- this is not soft sheet aluminum here.

Third, most of the stress at those points is either outward or inward, i.e. a nice straight pull on the aluminum.  The actual weight of the airplane is being supported on just 1/8" total worth of aluminum -- but it's well supported against bending by the wings and fuselage.  So it just needs to hold up in shear -- and clearly it's doing that.

If you were to space the wings 1/4" out from the fuselage, with tabs trying to hold against that, unsupported -- I wouldn't be at all surprised if they didn't fail in bending right where they left the fuselage or entered the wings.

If you tried to extend those itty-bitty tabs out as spars they'd fail, unless you were very careful with the shear webbing.  But that's not what Mike's doing here.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 07:43:35 PM »
How do those short little tabs add sufficient strength for the wing? I am bewildered. It seems the wing would fail, but apparantly it doesn't. I love the removable belcrank wires.
david
Just as Tim said, the main stress during flight is on the spar, and its purely in the tension and compression. There are no twisting or other sideways forces on it. Prior to building this system, I made a mock up joint (simple aluminum strip attached to a 1/2” by 1/2” maple beam with a #4 sheet metal screw). The aluminum got pinched in a shop vise while i was applying my entire weight hanging on the maple beam. It didn’t even budge. I’m pretty sure our spars don’t see 200+ lbs of tension, even in the most radical maneuvers.
Now, I know that people who have been building one piece airplanes all their lives have come to rely on wing center sheeting as the source of strength in the wing, and many if not most use balsa spars. With the take apart, the forces are concentrated on the spar attachment points. That’s why we didn’t skimp on epoxy and used hardwood beams. We also installed vertical grain shear webs as deep as we could reach into the wing. Upon closer look, you can see spruce (?) spars running the length of the wing. The tiny aluminum tabs just have to tie the spars on the opposite sides together, and they do that very well.

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 01:44:36 PM »
Hi Mike, so do the maple spars run the length of the wing? or how far do you run them? And the #4 screws don't sheer off. Model three on my future list I would love to make a take apart and I'd never imagined this method. Would you try this on a built up fuselage as well?

David

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 03:32:23 PM »
David, I referenced the 1/2" square maple beams as material that I used to make a mock-up joint.  In the actual SV-11 ARF/ARC kit, they supply two ~6" long spar joiners. I'm not sure what the wood species is - it's of Chinese origin - but it's strong enough for what we need.  I simply cut the 6" pieces in half, so about 3" gets glued into its respective plywood box, which is in turn tied to what looked like a 1/16"x 3/8" (? eyeballing here) spruce (? or something like it) spar that runs the length of the wing.  Running maple beams the entire length of the wing would add gobs of weight and is not required for the sufficient strength.
Note that most foam wing builders run lite ply spars only about 1/3 of the span - that's because that's where most of the loads are concentrated. 
If you are building from scratch, I would recommend starting with 1/2" square maple beam stock, cut about 3" length, taper to about 1/2" x 1/8", and attach to a spruce spar (either 1/4" square, or 3/8" x 1/8") by wrapping with a strong nylon thread (Jo-Ann fabrics) or, better, Kevlar thread, and soaking the thread with thin CA.  Then proceed building the wing halves as usual - ribs, sheeting, etc.
And yes, this will definitely work on built-up fuse as well.  That's how all the Ukrainian take-apart planes are built (much fancier CNC hardware, but the same idea).

Offline TDM

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2019, 10:19:24 AM »
Nike perhaps a lighter idea and even more bullet proof would be a short quarter inch square piece of 6061 aluminium instead of the hard wood blocks. The threads in the aluminium would be a little more reliable to stripping.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2020, 11:30:39 AM »
I know this topic has been sitting a while, but I prefer this to starting a new thread.

1. Mike or any others, how did you make your leadouts, or is there another technique that works or hardware available for attaching the leadouts to the belcrank?

2. Do flaps need to be removable? Do you use the long single wire method for joining the hinges together? Has anyone tried square brass tubing inserted into square brass tubing (each flap has a bend piece of tubing. The flap horn has the larger diameter of square brass tubing. It simply inserts without removing the flap?

3. Is there any hardware made for joining the wing halves to the fuselage? If not that seems easier to fabricate. What about using carbon fiber tube for the top and bottom spar of the wing and inserting it into a telescoping size of brass, aluminum or carbon fiber at the fuselage?

Thanks

David

Offline Mike Alimov

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2020, 01:27:57 PM »
David, answering in the same order:
1) leadouts are made from the Tom Morris cable, but can be any other suitable steel cable that can be tinned with regular solder. The main "hooks" are bent from 1/16" music wire, and the "locks" are pieces of  .030"-.040" music wire. All three elements (cable, hook, lock) get thoroughly cleaned by fine sandpaper to remove oxide, wiped down with acetone, and wrapped with thin copper wire ( same kind used to terminate lines) but with its insulation removed with 220-320 grit sandpaper; wrap tightly for the total length of about 1-1/4". Then everything gets smeared with flux and soldered with regular electronic grade solder. A poor man's flux for steel is a crushed aspirin tablet, but beware nasty fumes.
2) Our flaps are not removable from the wing; permanently installed using standard Dubro hinges. I've never used the removable hinge wire method; neither is it required for the wing to be removable. Instead, the flaps have received plywood pockets, as shown on one of the pictures above. Make sure there is no slop between the horn wire and the pocket. Not hard to do, as horn wire is 1/8" and so are most of the Dremel bits.
3) The only commercially available take apart hardware I'm aware of is sold by the Yatsenko brothers; it is CNC machined and of very high quality. I don't use it for a number of reasons: it's pricey (over $100 a set); it limits your fuselage width and wing thickness to whatever its dimensions are; such abundance of metal parts is only needed on combustion powered planes, where engine vibration leads to wear over time. My metal parts can be cut from a thin sheet the size of my hand with a hack saw and a drill press; weigh and cost close to nothing, and fit any design I choose.
Having said that, there are many other ways this task can be tackled, including telescoping carbon tubes. I have considered all of those options before settling on my approach as the simplest one and within my manufacturing capability. 

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Re: SV-11 ARF/ARC take apart method #2
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2020, 04:03:35 PM »
Thanks again Mike. I did some drawing and I think I have an idea of how to make the lead out attachments. I've decided to finally build a new wing for my pathfinder to try out some of these methods, if I get it wrong I've only gained knowledge. If I get it right then I know what to do for the PA plane I have planned. (And my pathfinder will fly again.)

Flap pockets! I hadn't thought of that. Looks good.


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