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Author Topic: Something Does Not Look Right Here....  (Read 4808 times)

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« on: November 13, 2016, 02:51:40 PM »
So, moments ago, I was in process of removing the new Fox 35 50th Anniversary engine from my Twister that I had purchased this past summer. I was just doing so, as I was going to break in the engine on the bench in the spring, and would be lighter to hang from the ceiling without the added weight. So, after removing the engine, I went to stand up the plane and I saw where the engine was bolted through the 1/8" doublers. That is all it was bolted to! There was NO engine bearers installed into the airplane. So, with that now said, what about the rest of the airplane? I am now thinking of cutting into the wing just to see if he even bolted the bellcrank down, or did more than one wrap of wire on the leadouts. I am just sick right now knowing this. I paid top dollar for this thinking it was all good to go, now I am having my doubts! Damn, how do I know if he even glued the wing together? Anyways, I just wanted to show you all what I just found and now I have something to try to fix up and ponder!


Offline David Hoover

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 03:26:53 PM »
I'm baffled why anyone would build it that way.  It would seem to be more effort than building it with the motor mounts in place.  I agree that you should go through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure there aren't other major problems.

Any chance of going back to the seller and getting a refund?
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Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 03:55:34 PM »
You should also remove the landing gear and see if there is anything in the fuselage to keep the gear aligned.  Sig uses a brass tube but something stronger would be better. If the landing gear wire is just stuck into the doubler that will be another problem.  You could just pull test the airplane to see if the bellcrank and leadouts hold up. 
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 05:19:18 PM »
Thanks for the info. No, no chance of going back to the seller, as it was bought this summer, and it would cost about half as much in fuel for the trip as it cost me to buy it. I will right now go look at the landing gear area and see if I could find a scale to do a pull test. I will just look online for the amount of pull required. If I don't do that today, I should be able to tomorrow.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 05:47:12 PM »
Ok. So I just looked, the gear does indeed have a brass tube installed, and appears to be epoxied in place. I also took 30 lbs of freeweights and tied them together, then tied them to the leadouts. Nothing moved, cracked, or anything. So, it looks like that part is good, with the only problem being the engine bearers. I am glad I was able to spot this before flying as it probably would have ended up in a disaster, and I did not get any plans with the plane either. So, I guess I will source out some epoxy and some spruce then install myself some engine bearers! It now sounds like I am going to be having some fun!

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 07:23:36 PM »
   Not spruce, but hard maple. 3/8" by 1'2" I think it is. Use slow epoxy, one hour stuff at least. Coat the pockets where the bearers will go, slide them in, and make sure you have epoxy every where you can see. Clamp the doublers with small C clamps and some popsycle sticks or something to protect the paint. What a shame. Makes one wonder whether the builder knew what he was doing at all, or just trying to screw someone.
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 08:32:35 PM »
    Makes one wonder whether the builder knew what he was doing at all, or just trying to screw someone.
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

I had honestly thought for sure that the gentleman knew what he was doing. He was a certified AME here in Canada, owned a couple of planes himself, and maintained them himself. I do not honestly think that he was there trying to screw someone, he was a genuine person in my opinion, but had absolutely zero experience or knowledge with control line. But, now for the rest of this story...

The person originally had a huge 'lot' of model airplane stuff for sale and was reluctant to split the Twister for me. Included were 2 trainers, 1 I believe was an ARF, a couple of planes mostly built ready for covering, and the Holy Grail, a 1/4 scale Cub with floats and wheels! Nothing had been run or started, with the exception of 1 engine. All radio gear was older FM stuff. It looks like I have to tell my buddy at work about what I had found with my Twister, as he bought the rest of the stuff! I really want him to check over that Cub, cause it is really nice, looking...

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 08:45:41 PM »
Well, from my perspective, at least you have MAAC insurance and not AMA. Would you please keep that thing on your side of the border?  y1 Steve
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Offline John McFayden

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 09:00:59 PM »
It is just a good thing that you did not fill the tank, prime the engine and start it up while still on the model. Might have been some serious issues and potential injury.

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 09:37:50 PM »
It is just a good thing that you did not fill the tank, prime the engine and start it up while still on the model. Might have been some serious issues and potential injury.

Yep. Just glad it had a new unrun Fox engine that i wanted to take off for storage and break in on the bench in the springtime. That is the only reason i noticed. If not, it wouldnt have ended this way im sure and id be posting about doing a rebuild, and without plans to boot! Thinking i might trace out the fuselage and tail surfaces so at least i have something.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 09:47:10 PM »
 Wow. Wow. Uh, WOW.

 I can't believe something as obvious as this could ever be missed. This is something that should have been discovered WAY before the model ever got to the flying field. Built by oneself or purchased from another party, absolutely no excuses either way.
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2016, 08:20:36 PM »
Ok. So just a little update. I took to task a few minutes ago after taking a peek at the plane. The cutouts for the engine bearers are perfectly square, meaning no glue or such from the gentleman gluing on the doublers, but the doublers are in fact glued on pretty well. I talked to my buddy that bought the rest of the stuff, and coincidentally after telling me he did not have the box or plans for it (original person I bought it from), my buddy had a Sig Twister box with a few scrap pieces of wood in it from when he picked up the 'lot'. Amongst the pieces are 2 pieces of hardwood. Conveniently they fit the slots perfectly! I am confident to say that I do have the factory pieces of hardwood. Now for the clencher. I see that Dan McEntee had mentioned to coat the slots well with 1 hour epoxy then set in place. I do not have 1 hour epoxy, but I do have 1/2 hour epoxy. Do you feel it will be alright to use that without having to buy more epoxy. In case it makes a difference, the epoxy in question is in Bob Smith Industries, in case it makes a difference. Thanks again, and I have a big weight lifted off my shoulders as this should be a relatively easy and quick repair. If all goes well, I hope to get to it tomorrow.

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2016, 08:22:19 PM »
30 min is fine.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 09:20:58 PM »
depending on how fast you can work, you might do one at a time.
also, consider once you get them glued in place drill through them and pin them through the doublers and hardwood in a couple locations.
my reasoning is that some of the wood you are trying to glue to is painted, ,so a little insurance..
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2016, 09:51:35 PM »
Thank you. I will then use my 30 minute with a couple of 'pins' through it as well as clamped as per Dans recommendation. I just want it to be fixed right the first time.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2016, 10:11:39 PM »
The mounting bolts for the IC engine should help hold the glued joint also.
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 11:17:14 PM »
The mounting bolts for the IC engine should help hold the glued joint also.

Yeah, those are getting replaced too. Brass, undersized, and on the plane with a simple brass acorn nut. No washers or lock washers. He did, however,  get the right length! LL~

Offline Motorman

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2016, 07:31:28 AM »
This will be forever known as the "Canadian motor mount".



Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2016, 07:20:07 PM »
Got the motor mount blocks installed. Mixed up the epoxy and put a bunch in and on each area, upper and lower. I then pushed them in as far as I could go, then proceeded to use my smaller mallet to put them in. Well, about 2 inches remaining, the head flew off my small mallet, just missing my face. So, quickly I throw the handle on my workbench and go to grab my small hammer from the drawer. I get it, start to put the top mounting block in, and get it all the way in. Put down the hammer, clean up some of the epoxy that had oozed out. Go to grab the hammer to repeat to the lower one. As I reposition my hand on the hammer handle, it feels funny, and sticky.... Remember me putting the mallet handle down. Well, I kinda lied. I kinda threw it on the bench, in turn knocking my epoxy all over. Remember me putting down my hammer? Yep, right in the epoxy I did not see! Anyways, pound in the lower beam now till flush, clean up the outside of the plane and evaluate. Place some of the remaining epoxy in the little cracks and gaps I saw. I then followed up by wrapping the nose with waxed paper and clamping very securely and am now waiting for it to dry. Anyways, it is now fixed, and I will mount my Fox 35 without muffler, and check the balance after the repairs and required mods that were mentioned earlier that I did not yet do. Anyways, thank you all for the help, tips, and advice along the way.

Chancey

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2016, 07:45:37 PM »
If they fit that tightly I think you are fine.  Your procedure sounds like something that would happen to me.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2016, 08:53:52 PM »
Bet you didn't realize you were buying an ARF.  LL~
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Offline Chancey Chorney

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2016, 09:36:01 PM »
Bet you didn't realize you were buying an ARF.  LL~

Almost feels like it. Heck, even i could have built it to this condition myself! Just saved myself the time.   ;D

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2016, 09:50:46 PM »
Hey Chancey,
This will be hilarious some day.
Make sure nothing else in there needs a fuel proofing coat of epoxy too.
Also, the wing looks pretty sharp on the LE. I think I sent you a template for that shape? If not, let me know and I will. If it's Monokote and you're careful, you can strip it for sanding without botching the whole wing covering. If he left you a diamond shaped LE, it will fly like crap.
Rusty
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Something Does Not Look Right Here....
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2016, 12:32:58 AM »
I was going to suggest a couple of "vent" holes at the back of those 3/8 x 1/2 tunnels; about 1/8" dia would have let excess epoxy out. Too late...  y1 Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.


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