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Author Topic: Question about lead outs/bellcrank  (Read 1630 times)

Offline Terry Bolin

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Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« on: February 16, 2008, 10:13:57 PM »
I am starting a 60 size Legacy and noticed the bellcrank lever was turned to the inside. (between the leadouts) what difference does this make not pointing to the outside wing?

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 10:37:40 PM »
I'm sure the pros will chip in here, but here goes anyway;

The plus is that the forward leadout will be the "up" line---supposed to help compensate for the yaw caused by gyroscopic precession from the prop.

The negative is that it is a little more difficult make sure that the lead outs and flap push rod don't touch.

I have my Legacy set up as you describe---still under construction.

Jim
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Offline Richard Edwards

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 01:07:05 AM »
I wondered about that myself as I tried turning the bellcrank leadout to the inside on a Shark and there doesnt seem to be very much space between the pushrod and leadout what do others do put extra washers between the ball link where it attaches to the bellcrank to make sure there is good clearance?
 Richard Edwards

Offline Leester

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 06:51:48 AM »
On a ball link system  they make a standoff which is about 1/8" thick. CLC or Tom Morris will have these.
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Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 06:55:28 PM »
I confess I have never understood this solution.  Why not just run the pushrod out the bottom, and put the flap horn on the under side?  It would accomplish the same thing (front leadout "up") while avoiding the interference problem with a reversed BC.  More than one way to skin a cat.

--Ray
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Offline Clint Ormosen

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 09:51:47 PM »
I confess I have never understood this solution.  Why not just run the pushrod out the bottom, and put the flap horn on the under side?  It would accomplish the same thing (front leadout "up") while avoiding the interference problem with a reversed BC.  More than one way to skin a cat.

--Ray

 I think clearence to the bottom of the fuse would be the problem there. Not on all models, for sure. But a lot of the classic stunters don't have a lot of space between the bottom of the wing at the trailing edge and the fuse bottom.
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 11:05:07 PM »
I think clearence to the bottom of the fuse would be the problem there. Not on all models, for sure. But a lot of the classic stunters don't have a lot of space between the bottom of the wing at the trailing edge and the fuse bottom.

I am positive you could easily do that with a profile, but the problems Clint stated are very real with most built up fuselage stunters.
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Offline Terry Bolin

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 05:57:10 AM »
BUT, by putting the horn under the wing on the flaps, you now have a clearance problem at the tail. The control horn now needs to be on the top of the elevators. How do some of you guys deal with the clearance problem of running the push rod by the leadout?

Offline tom hampshire

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 07:23:09 AM »
The central problem with an underslung flap horn is not the interference with the fuse bottom or pipe tunnel.  The real loss is that the increased angularity of the pushrods re the horn axis.  In order to get the movable surface to swing equally in both directions, the pushrod has to make a 90 deg intersection with the centerline of the horn leg.  Many aileron hookups on R/C stuff use this angularity error to make the aileron swing more up than down, to equalize the effective control given the lower pressure on top of the wing.  This is especially true for airplanes with the stab mounted above the wing centerline, as most are.  See Al Rabe's writings for discussion of the control errors caused by pushrod angularity.  If the underslung layout is used for other reasons, then my guess is that a custom flap horn with the upright aft of the trailing edge would have to be fabricated.  Tom H.

Offline minnesotamodeler

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2008, 11:18:44 AM »
Interesting discussion.  another solution I guess might be a backward BC that is 3-D; that is, the pushrod arm in a different plane (higher or lower, whatever works better) than the leadout arms.  No clearance problem then.
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Offline John Miller

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 11:54:26 AM »
Good reasons have been given for why the underslung, (bottom) flap horn is harder to work with. The least of which is related to the flap and which line is the up line. There becomes a real and difficult geometry solution to having the elevator horn now on the top of the elevator. If the stab is moved to a point below the wing centerline, then the problem is non existant, but, now the stab is blanketed in level flight.

I think too much is being made of the possible problem. I've been using the reversed bellcrank for years, and not had an interference problem with the leadouts. The angle that the pushrod has is sufficient to clear the leadouts, esp. if you use a ball link at the bellcrank.

There are several solutions for this, a problem that isn't really a problem, but you run the risk of over complicating the control system.  H^^
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 11:15:50 AM by John Miller »
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Offline Ray

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 04:58:00 PM »
Interesting discussion.  another solution I guess might be a backward BC that is 3-D; that is, the pushrod arm in a different plane (higher or lower, whatever works better) than the leadout arms.  No clearance problem then.

I've seen that type bellcrank in one of the hardware bins in our shop; no main shaft bushing, though.  The pushrod arm has a pair of 90 degree bends, placing the end of the arm about a quarter inch above / below the plane of the main body of the bellcrank.  It was sold that way, and is still in the plastic bag that it hung on the peg in at some hobby shop.  What I cannot bring into focus is the rest of the mental picture -- regular orientation (probably), or intended for use with the pushrod arm inboard. 

There was some other bit of hardware I'm already supposed to remember to look at out there as well . . (it's in another message thread here).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 09:00:22 PM by Ray »

Offline Bill Little

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 09:35:21 AM »
I am like someone else said here.  My experiences with flipping the BC to where the front line is up has not lead to any issues with obstructions. (?? ?? ?? ?)
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Offline Terry Bolin

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Re: Question about lead outs/bellcrank
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2008, 04:07:32 AM »
I would think you could get around the clearance problem with spacer/washers but wondered why the change in bellcrank configuration. Now I understand about the up lead out.
Terry B
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