Author Topic: Profile Sorta Done - Ok, now fully done. (Read 17859 times)

Randy Powell · « **on:** April 04, 2009, 12:10:10 AM »

Well, I have to go back and re-work the gear. Not quite stiff enough, but I have an idea for that. And the leadouts need to be wrapped, but here it is.

Wayne J. Buran · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2009, 04:11:03 AM »

Very nice, I like the attention to detail.
Wayne

Matt Colan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2009, 06:21:18 AM »

Looks good Randy, did you paint it?

Claudio Chacon · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2009, 10:06:56 AM »

How NICE Randy! Indeed, a profile stunter with great STYLE!

Love that beefy nose...I'm sure you will have no vibration issues whatsoever.

I can see that the installed fuel tank has no wedge. Any particular reason for that?

Congrats,
Claudio

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2009, 08:23:41 PM »

Reminds me of the movie "Rancho Deluxe"!!!! Seen it lately? I do like the checkerboard on the LE. Mrs. Powell has my vote for the artist of the household.

Steve

Randy Powell · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2009, 10:36:16 PM »

Claudio,

I've built tanks like this for years. They work fine so why go to the trouble of making a wedge?

Steve,

Strangely, that is where the idea came from. I watched it on some weird cable channel the other day.

Got the gear fixed. My idea really worked very slick without adding any real weight. The leadouts are wrapped and the plumbing's done so hopefully it is ready to try tomorrow. You coming to the Narrows, Steve?

Matt,

Whoops, almost forgot. Paint on the fuselage, the flying surfaces are film. Film was used for the minimal trim and the silly checkerboard is Monokote Trimkote.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:51:21 PM »

Maiden flight today. Wow!

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2009, 04:08:02 PM »

She really looks sharp Randy! How's she flying?

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2009, 05:07:30 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 05, 2009, 03:51:21 PM

Maiden flight today. Wow!

Randy...is "Wow!" like "Wow! Good!" or "Wow! Scary!"? I hope you didn't put one of those "spreader wires"
between the wheels. They look poorly and Pete is always breaking his'n.

Steve

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2009, 08:59:08 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 05, 2009, 03:51:21 PM

Maiden flight today. Wow!

Wow, does this make you a prophylactic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I,I,I,I,I mean profile adict?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2009, 11:36:27 PM »

Wow means awesome. The thing was pretty nose heavy for the first flight, but I sort of expected that and just wanted to see what I had. Not a whole lot of turn, but boy did it groove.

The addition of about an ounce of tail weight (bringing the overall weight up to a whooping 50 oz.) and the addition of a lighter spinner did the trick. Almost a full pattern the second flight (just a bit short on fuel - plenty of room, just needed to figure out how much to put in).

So, 4 flights and by the 4th I was putting in the best pattern I've flown in about 6 months. At the end of the day, I needed to bend the header a touch (the pipe was just rubbing on the gear leg (remember, the gear is a retrofit), Needed to bury the lead in the tail and I needed to de-pitch the prop a touch. I started on 62 foot lines but by the second flight had jumped to 67 footers to slow things down. Really flies great on those.

Steve,

No, no wire. I came up with a little trick to stiffen the legs that work ridiculously well. By the end of the day, I was thinking about a full bodied version. Hmmm....

So, it's about 600 square inches (56 inch span), about 50oz. and uses an OS 40VF for power. I suppose I could switch out to the PA 40UL, but then I'm probably need nose weight. And after the trimming, man does it groove and turn. I love this plane. Pete fergeson was already asking about plans (too bad there aren't any).

Richard Grogan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 06, 2009, 12:11:58 AM »

Man, that sounds really GREAT! Time to share it with the Brotherhood! That is one AWESOME looking version of Ringmaster! I really love the name choice, and the CHECKERBOARD LE is righteous,Brother! (did i say i like checkerboards??lol) I agree with Steve, Mrs. Powell can design my next finish art too!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2009, 11:59:53 AM »

When I was putting on the trim (with monokote, mostly), my wife came out to the shop with some sort of honey-do. I had bit of monokote and all the trimkote I had laying around forever sitting on the bench. She says, hey, I like that checkerboard stuff. You could put some of that down the front of the wing. I said, "yes, dear" (hey, I've been married for 30 years. I am well broken in). I had intended to put that same strip down the wing, but with white Monokote. Looks better this way.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2009, 03:26:44 PM »

Randy,

I figured WOW ment awsome, I was just being a wise guy, some say I do it naturally.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2009, 04:36:16 PM »

It is pretty darn cool Randy
it looks so benign and innocent from one side, then you see the pipe hiding down there on the other side and its true nature is known!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2009, 10:34:11 AM »

I'm just about done re-painting the tail where I had to bury some lead (sigh...). I'll shoot some clear on tonight. Should have used the narrower nozzle on the airbrush. Oh well, it's a profile. The header is now bent to the correct angle to allow the pipe not to rub on the gear ... or the wing. And I now have several props to try out. Think it's about ready to go again.

It was weird last weekend. By Sunday evening, I had three planes, all needed some sort of work or another. I had to make a list of things for each plane so I wouldn't forget anything. Then there were props to check and some to repitch. Yada, yada, yada.

My wife asked me why I was in the shop so long. I thought you finished that plane.

George Grossardt · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2009, 05:41:32 PM »

This plane is really cool. Certainly not what you think of when someone says profile.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2009, 12:54:59 PM »

Here's a couple more pictures that I posted over on the Ring Forum. I think I may have talked Pat Johnston into doing some CAD plans for it. That would be cool.

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2009, 02:58:43 PM »

Randy,
That is SWEET !!!!

Can you show a photo of a close up of how the engine is mounted?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2009, 04:02:12 PM »

Paul,

Here are a couple of pictures that mostly show it. It gives you the idea. The first is the nose under construction. This is the layout, anyway. Almost all of that balsa was cut away after the tank compartment was installed. And you can see the original gear before I ripped it out and did the CF job (that clearly works much, much better).

Paul Taylor · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2009, 07:50:03 PM »

Thanks Randy,
That is just too kewl !!!

Thanks for the pics.

Paul

Randy Powell · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2009, 04:10:44 PM »

Paul,

I'm not sure why so many folks seem to think this was a difficult build. I suppose it was on some levels, but that was much more to do with having to figure stuff out as I went along and having to backtrack and rework something that wasn't "quite" what I had in mind than any real level of complication. It really isn't much. The nose was pretty easy once I figured out the angle of the cant correctly (took me three trys - I'm a mite slow sometimes). The rest of it was also straight forward. I used the Millennium type of wing structure, but that has more to do with having a really good jig set up that made such a wing pretty easy to build. It would work just fine with a D-tube wing.

Anyway, it sure is fun to fly.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2009, 05:28:40 PM »

What is the advantage of the canted engine? Or is it just to be different? It is a nice application regardless.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2009, 09:40:25 PM »

Randy's Ringmasta Deluxe has an OS .40VF (rear exhaust) and carbon fiber tuned pipe. Mike Haverly is currently building a new profile based on the Profile Cardinal wing, also with a canted engine, but in this case, a Magnum XLS .36 with a side/rear header and CF tuned pipe. In both cases, the idea was to tuck the pipe up along the wing, out of sight behind the fuselage profile.

I'm looking forward to Mike getting tired of flying too many events again! This could be kewl!

Steve

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2009, 07:58:33 AM »

Well sure, now that I look at the picture with the exhaust in mind it's obvious. As the kids would say, Duh. Thanks.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #25 on:** April 11, 2009, 06:54:05 PM »

Yea, it was just a way to solve a problem. I didn't' want to have to have to do a some sort of custom header.

frank carlisle · « **Reply #26 on:** April 13, 2009, 01:55:53 PM »

Very nice plane Randy. The color scheme makes it pop. And the engine cant makes it look trick. After all the other models I've seen that you built this one fits right in.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #27 on:** April 13, 2009, 03:30:22 PM »

I can report that Pat Johnston is in the process of drawing plans for it. I've asked him to include both my rather odd layout for the fuse and a more conventional layout. That way you can build it for an LA46 or Magnum 53 or similar or go full boat and do a pipe installation. He tells me the plans will be ready in a month or so.

So, there you go.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #28 on:** April 13, 2009, 04:37:14 PM »

Quote from: Ty Marcucci on April 13, 2009, 03:53:49 PM

Amazing. You have actually made a purse from a Sows ear. A good looking Ring Master, at last.
Love to see your work, it inspires me.

Somebody blew up Ringmaster plans to fit an ST .60 in it. The wing was HUGE!!!. When he flew it, the whole plane had that hollow sound. This was in 2007 in Wrentham Mass at my first contest but I don't remember the guy's name.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #29 on:** April 13, 2009, 04:55:41 PM »

Ty,

Well, this is a Ringmaster in name (and appearance) only. The aerodynamics all all mine; for good or evil.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #30 on:** April 13, 2009, 06:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 13, 2009, 04:55:41 PM

Ty,

Well, this is a Ringmaster in name (and appearance) only. The aerodynamics all all mine; for good or evil.

When I was looking at those pics, I didn't think of it at all looking like a ringmaster, and I still don't see a ringmaster in it, I see a good looking airplane

Allan Perret · « **Reply #31 on:** April 14, 2009, 06:05:16 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 08, 2009, 04:02:12 PM

Paul,

Here are a couple of pictures that mostly show it. It gives you the idea. The first is the nose under construction. This is the layout, anyway. Almost all of that balsa was cut away after the tank compartment was installed. And you can see the original gear before I ripped it out and did the CF job (that clearly works much, much better).

Did you consider using one of the RC type motor mounts? Was thinking it might simplify the nose construction. Would like to see picture of the wing from the top, looks like you have a swept LE. Do you think you could get similar performance with a wing planform true to original Ringmaster, just adding the flaps?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #32 on:** April 14, 2009, 10:00:15 AM »

Hmm, well, I think it looks like a Ringmaster. Sort of a grown up version.

The wing is tapered with flaps. I suppose you could build an untapered wing with flaps and get a more Ringmaster like look. But that wasn't really the point. The point was to build a good preforming profile that looks like a Ringmaster. I suppose it depends on one's point of view. I like it.

Yes, I looked at a radial mount set up. And if I were using a lighter engine, that probably would have been how I would have gone. But with this really heavy engine, I wanted to build the lightest possible nose while maintaining structural integrity. Just couldn't get there with a radial mount. The version that Pat Johnston is drawing will have a standard sidwinder mount (for those that would rather use a more conventional enigne and layout) with an alternative for this sort for construction.

Matt Colan · « **Reply #33 on:** April 14, 2009, 10:08:27 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 14, 2009, 10:00:15 AM

Hmm, well, I think it looks like a Ringmaster. Sort of a grown up version.

The wing is tapered with flaps. I suppose you could build an untapered wing with flaps and get a more Ringmaster like look. But that wasn't really the point. The point was to build a good preforming profile that looks like a Ringmaster. I suppose it depends on one's point of view. I like it.

Yes, I looked at a radial mount set up. And if I were using a lighter engine, that probably would have been how I would have gone. But with this really heavy engine, I wanted to build the lightest possible nose while maintaining structural integrity. Just couldn't get there with a radial mount. The version that Pat Johnston is drawing will have a standard sidwinder mount (for those that would rather use a more conventional enigne and layout) with an alternative for this sort for construction.

Somebody once put a pipe and a header on an Enya. I have video of it but I can't remember who it was. It was conventional profile construction, but the header was mounted onto a side exhaust engine, an Enya 40 I believe. It looked really cool but not as cool as this

Randy Powell · « **Reply #34 on:** April 14, 2009, 12:11:53 PM »

Matt,

Well that was part of the point. I had a 40VF with conventional header (rear exhaust engine). The reason it's set up the way it is was to accommodate the engine as it was. This plane was largely built out of the scrap box. I think I used 4 sheets of new wood and the rest was from scrap. I didn't want to have to have a custom header built. Just use what I had. It works.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #35 on:** April 14, 2009, 03:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 14, 2009, 10:00:15 AM

Hmm, well, I think it looks like a Ringmaster. Sort of a grown up version.

The wing is tapered with flaps. I suppose you could build an untapered wing with flaps and get a more Ringmaster like look. But that wasn't really the point. The point was to build a good preforming profile that looks like a Ringmaster. I suppose it depends on one's point of view. I like it.

Yes, I looked at a radial mount set up. And if I were using a lighter engine, that probably would have been how I would have gone. But with this really heavy engine, I wanted to build the lightest possible nose while maintaining structural integrity. Just couldn't get there with a radial mount. The version that Pat Johnston is drawing will have a standard sidwinder mount (for those that would rather use a more conventional enigne and layout) with an alternative for this sort for construction.

Dont take me wrong. I love the way yours looks, and I intend to build my version of it someday. I was just kicking some ideas around. I am not suggesting a constant chord wing, the Ringmaster wing is tapered, just the other way with a straight LE and swept forward TE. Looks to have as much taper if not more than most of the modern PA ships. Guess my quesion is would the original Ringmaster wing with flaps added have the potential to be as good a PA stunt ship as is the current crop with the taper on the LE versus the TE ??

Randy Powell · « **Reply #36 on:** April 15, 2009, 12:35:34 PM »

Well, I didn't think so. My point was that if you wanted a Ringmaster looking wing, you could use a constant chord wing and with the tapered flaps get a plan view that would look like a Ringmaster. I doubt it would perform as well as a more conventional tapered wing, but I haven't tried it. This wing does have quite a bit of LE taper. It also has quite a bit of vertical taper (from about 20% thickness at the root to about 14% at the tip). All was in effort of reducing the sensitivity to turbulence and wind. Once of the reason Sparky harps on about weight is (I believe - maybe he will correct me) that he uses Werwage type airfoils and wing layouts. They have the benefit of cutting through wind well and being much less sensitive to turbulence. The downside (if it is a downside) is that they can't carry much payload. Hey, everything is a tradeoff. I went somewhere in between. The airfoil and wing layout on this plane is somewhere between a Werwage type wing and and Impact. Somewhat sharper leading edge than I usually use, the high point back a little more, highly tapered from root to tip and a bit more leading edge sweep. All in effort to reduce sensitivity to turbulence and wind.

Keep in mind that this was designed to be a competitive PA plane that sort of looks like a Ringmaster. But the first priority was that it be a competitive plane.

Not sure that answers what you're asking. Certainly, you can do a blown up Ringmaster. In fact, it's largely already been done with Dee Rice's Ringmaster 576. But it's a difference in approach. Much like the difference in approaches to building a semi-scale stunter. You can take a stunt plane and make it look like a P-51 (sort of like the approach that Paul Walker took with his 4 Stroke Mustang) or you can take a P-51 and alter it as little as possible to make it a competitive stunter (like Al Rabe did with his Mustang). I took the first approach and designed a competitive stunter and made it look like a Ringmaster. More or less.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #37 on:** April 15, 2009, 07:41:26 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 15, 2009, 12:35:34 PM

The airfoil and wing layout on this plane is somewhere between a Werwage type wing and and Impact. Somewhat sharper leading edge than I usually use, the high point back a little more, highly tapered from root to tip and a bit more leading edge sweep. All in effort to reduce sensitivity to turbulence and wind.
Keep in mind that this was designed to be a competitive PA plane that sort of looks like a Ringmaster. But the first priority was that it be a competitive plane.

I suspect you got it right, so I will wait for Pat's plans. Will likely have a couple of my own twist, but I wont mess with the wing.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #38 on:** April 16, 2009, 12:35:13 PM »

Allen,

Yea, it was interesting because I had an idea (design wise) and ran with it. But over the years, I've had a lot of ideas. Some worked out, some not. So I wasn't expecting much when I flew the thing. I figured it would fly OK. It was in the desgin envelope and certainly had plenty of power. But to get really floorboarded by the way it flew, now I'm kinda paranoid about changing anything in the design. Hey, sometimes you get lucky.

Allan Perret · « **Reply #39 on:** April 16, 2009, 04:01:53 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on April 16, 2009, 12:35:13 PM

Allen,

Yea, it was interesting because I had an idea (design wise) and ran with it. But over the years, I've had a lot of ideas. Some worked out, some not. So I wasn't expecting much when I flew the thing. I figured it would fly OK. It was in the desgin envelope and certainly had plenty of power. But to get really floorboarded by the way it flew, now I'm kinda paranoid about changing anything in the design. Hey, sometimes you get lucky.

Got a question about the engine run. I know you said it's all good. But profiles are not suppose to be rigid enough in the nose to get as good a run as full fuse birds. So is that not the case, or did you just go to some extraordinary efforts to build structure and rigidity into the nose ??

Randy Powell · « **Reply #40 on:** April 16, 2009, 04:08:45 PM »

Allen,

Well, the nose is a bit different. I went to some lengths to insure that the vibration was transmitted down the fuse and into the wing and avoided any stress risers. The nose is built from formers and full length maple mounts the tied together with the tank box (made out of 1/8" lite play). The the whole thing is tied into the wing and rear fuse section. No doublers were used. The nose block and center section fo the fuselage is also hogged out pretty well. This allows the vibration to travel down the maple bearers and into the rear part of the fuselage. It helps that the 40VF doesn't vibrate all that much, too.

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #41 on:** April 16, 2009, 07:02:12 PM »

Randy - as Lisa has often told me, I don't verbalize what's on my mind enough (I find myself thinking things, maybe even intending to comment, or thinking I already did, but actually neglecting to say anything),

and per usual I've been following along with everyone else looking at your plane thinking, "wow, that looks freaking awesome", then realized I'm keeping that little tid bit to myself.

So... in the name of self improvement and more importantly because you deserve the kudo's, forgive my stunned silence and please accept my hearty "Wow! That's freaking awesome! Well done! Atta boy! & Dude, that's rocks!" to you.

Hard to believe a profile could evoke such a strong reactions from people, but in all seriousness, you got something really right with this one. Don't let it slip away into obscurity, document it and write an article.

If it comes, peope will build it. Or is it the other way around?

EricV

Randy Powell · « **Reply #42 on:** April 17, 2009, 10:09:13 AM »

Hi Eric!

Yea, isn't that weird? Amazing sometimes. I was thinking the other day and I've desgined and built maybe 40 planes over the last 30 years (discounting kits and other's designs I've built). Some were pretty cool, others not so much. Some ideas worked out and some didn't (some really, really didn't, but that's another story). This was something just sort of done off the cuff to get something in the air for profile this year. I was impressed with some guys that flew Imitations on pipe engines in profile class last year at the Northwest Regionals so I thought, hey, as long as I'm doing this, I'll use a pipe engine and try out some design ideas that have been floating around in the back of my brain for awhile. I mean, it's a profile, so why not? Then I thought, gee, it would be kinda cool, since it's a profile, to make it look like a Ringmaster. Yea, that's it. An updated and competitive Ringmaster. It sort of took off from there. I had just sketched up some minimal (and I mean really minimal) plans and thought, well, this is a one shot deal. No reason to spend the time drawing detailed plans. Kinda wish I had, now.

Now it seems that it's sort of got away from me. Pat Johnston is doing CAD plans for it (using the templates-my cut up plans-that I sent him). Him and Dee Rice want to do a laser kit and they are already talking about doing a built up version (sidewinder) and a full fuse version.

Man, I just wanted a cool profile to fly this year.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #43 on:** April 20, 2009, 02:16:48 PM »

****Man, I just wanted a cool profile to fly this year.****

to which we all reply, you did succeed at that,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #44 on:** April 20, 2009, 05:58:00 PM »

Flew pretty well at Portland overall. Still working on the trim, but nothing exciting. It's got a bit of a wiggle on hard corners, but I think I've figured that out and will improve. The trick fix I used for a too springy gear worked great ... until it broke. Sigh.... So, I'll get that fixed this week.

But overall, I'd say it's a success.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #45 on:** April 20, 2009, 09:48:02 PM »

As I heard the story, Randy won Profile on Saturday. As in 1st Place. I guess that was so he'd loosen up the money clamp and buy some beers...

Steve

Rod Claus · « **Reply #46 on:** April 21, 2009, 09:08:46 AM »

Hey Randy,
We need to get some "P.I.S.T." tee shirts made up with a neat logo to wear for the summer stunt wars.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #47 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:28:42 PM »

Steve,

Scott buys the beer! Oh, wait, I think Mark and I split that bill.

Rod,

Talk to Pat. He's the president of the club.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #48 on:** April 21, 2009, 01:25:06 PM »

Rod,
first you have to qualify, and I am afraid your pretty CORRECT, your such a nice non controversial guy I dont know if you fit in,,

Randy Powell · « **Reply #49 on:** April 21, 2009, 03:24:44 PM »

The original T-Shirts that Pat, Jim Welch and I wore were blue with white lettering. Kinda cool in a politically incorrect sort of way.

Author Topic: Profile Sorta Done - Ok, now fully done. (Read 17859 times)

Eric Viglione