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Author Topic: Profile fuse bellcrank mount  (Read 1026 times)

Offline Kirk_Binns

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Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« on: July 07, 2008, 08:19:30 AM »
I'm pretty new to control line and am about to start a .25 size profile Brewster SB2A.  The original plan shows no dihedral (designed for stunt), but to get that satisfying look, I'd like to crank in some dihedral and thus have to mount the bellcrank mid-fuse or so.  I was thinking of 1.5" sq ply triplers on the right side of the fuse with brass tube bearings glassed vertically.  A better mousetrap out there somewhere?

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 01:52:40 PM »
My profile P51 has 1 1/8 inch dihedral, per panel, with the bellcrank mounted in the wing and the leadouts with adjustable guide all internal to the wing. The leadouts exit the tip, on the centerline---with more dihedral, the leadouts could exit slightly below the centerline.

This "sorta/maybe" gets back to the old "Where should the bellcrank be mounted?" question;  the answer is "makes no difference"---the real question is "Where do the leadouts exit the leadout guide with respect to the Center of Gravity, (both horizontal and vertical CG)?

Doest this make the picture muddy enough?? H^^

Cheers,
Jim
Jim Oliver
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Offline Bill Adair

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 03:24:17 PM »
Hi Kirk,

Take a look at the 3-view in the following link.

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/war/bomber/sb2a/SB2A%20single%20004.jpg

If you use scale dihedral, the lead out exit guide is going to be above the thrust line, and from the looks of it, above the vertical CG as well. That might cause the outboard wing to lift in flight, and that can cause some serious handling problems, and reduced line tension. If it were mine, I'd use only enough dihedral to place the guide on or slightly above the engine thrust line, and leave the bellcrank in the wing as Jim said.

I'm certainly no expert, so hopefully someone else will confirm, or correct my suggestions.

Bill

Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Offline Kirk_Binns

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 04:14:53 PM »
Guess this is where the novice in me comes in....I thought the bell crank was best put at the thrustline with leadout exits parallel to the bellcrank.  So I sketched it out on the plans I rx'd from John in Houston and as long as the bellcrank remains as high as possible at the root, the exits to the leadouts will come out below the tip former.  This is given a non-scale stunt rib section as the model was designed.  Thanks for the advice!

Kirk

Offline phil c

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2008, 05:59:47 PM »
This is a good plane to reduce the dihedral on, as Bill Adair says.  The wing is already above the bottom of the fuse.  Raise it half an inch or so, add just enough dihedral to bring the tip up in line with the thrust line, mount the engine upright(to offset the weight of the gear).  Unlike some designs, this one doesn't have any really signiature features- P 51 has a big belly scoop and a low wing,  Spitfire has an elliptical low wing, P-39 has trike gear, P-47 has a big radial engine and fuse and a low wing.  Those kinds of things have to be allowed for to make a realistic looking stunter out of a scale design.  A Mustang just looks weird with a midwing.  A P-47 looks funny without a big fuse and lots of dihedral.
phil Cartier

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 06:12:28 PM »
I'd put a little dihederal in the wing, drop the wing 1/2" or so, then bring the LO's out the bottom of the tip rib. Use a side mounted engine, light wheels, and you should be close. Hang it by the LO's to be sure. Lots of variables, like will the canopy be clear plastic or balsa (big weight difference, usually), how heavy the wheels & LG struts are, etc.   D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Kirk_Binns

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 08:33:48 PM »
The sketch that I did on a drink napkin shows the LOs exiting from the wing at the last rib prior to the tip with a wing mounted bellcrank.  I'll use a true scale profile....which is largish....and keep the wing in position to show the bomb bay and allow some latitude to get the vertical c of g in the ballpark .  I plan on forming the canopy from a Coke bottle ( the SB2A, similar to the SB2C, had a break in the greenhouse) and will use 1/8" wire for the gear (plus ply doors).  39" w/s, OS .25 LA for power on 60' lines.

Thanks all and will post hack and glue photos shortly.

Kirk

Offline L0U CRANE

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Re: Profile fuse bellcrank mount
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 11:35:49 PM »
Kirk,

Since most CL models, other than contest scale types, do not have visible dihedral, any visible dihedral is more noticeable than you'd think. Unless you really want to have just about scale dihedral, you can apply enough that the impression is achieved, and still keep the 'works' inboard.

As to bellcrank location: Vertical location is more important than fore and aft location, because we can't adjust it. What matters is where the leadout guides are with respect to the vertical and horizontal CG. To me, ideally, the leadout guides should be even with the vertical CG, and straddle a rearward line about 3° to 5° aft from the horizontal CG to match the trail angle of the lines as they meet the wingtip. NOTE - the CG determines the yaw, not the bellcrank anchor...

The lines can carry only pull; they can't push, even on the leadout guides. The pull 'aims' at the CG at the angle they trail when they get to the wing. That's the angle aft of the CG to aim the pull straight at the CG in most cases. Maneuvers cause some brief changes, but quickly return to standard. If the pull, aimed through the leadout guides is too far forward, it will tend to swing the fuselage until pull does point to the CG - that's nose-in, which isn't good. If the guides are too far aft, the model yaws nose-out, which is draggy and not good in other ways. When they're right, the model has the least unwanted yaw in steady flight.

Of course, if the leadouts aren't properly aimed at the CG, there'll be more wear and drag from the leadouts rubbing on the guides. And that's the only advantage from locating the bellcrank in a particular place - less wear on the leadouts and guides when the bellcrank pivot is about on the horizontal and vertical CG...
\BEST\LOU


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