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Author Topic: Laminating balsa  (Read 943 times)

Offline John Skukalek

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Laminating balsa
« on: March 30, 2024, 10:38:27 AM »
I have some good light 1/16 balsa but am short on 1/8 balsa. I'm considering laminating 2 pieces of 1/16 to get 1/8. What is the best glue to use for lamination in order to minimize weight gain? 

Offline Colin McRae

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2024, 11:30:06 AM »
I would think SIG Bond or Titebond (original formula) would be good. Both same basic type of wood glue. Also, a bit of water can be added to thin before application. Only a small amount of water is needed to thin. Add water a drop or 2 at a time, mix, and see if it is the consistency you want to brush-on.

Offline John Skukalek

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2024, 11:37:40 AM »
Thank you Colin

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2024, 12:23:46 PM »
Both those glues will cause warpage as most glues do.   If you have a large area that is flat and another plate to put on top I would use Gorilla glue.   It does not need to be rushed applying and will cure over night.  Be sure to use parchment paper top and bottom of the pieces being laminated as the glue will find every little hole in the balsa.   The pieces will be very stiff and the glue is very sandable. Really I myself would go get some 1/8th inch balsa sheets and save the 1/16th for other uses.  By the way the Gorilla glue spreads very easily.  Read instructions on bottle first before buying as if I remember right the surfaces have to be dampened before spreading the glue.   It does expand while curing so put lots of weight on the top piece. D>K
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Offline John Skukalek

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2024, 12:48:13 PM »
One of the things that I am wondering about John is weight. It seems next to impossible to find light 1/8 balsa. I do have light 1/16. I don't know if laminating 2 pieces of 1/16 will result in light 1/8? Or will adding glue for laminating render the resulting 1/8 to be significantly heavier than the combined weight of the 2 pieces of 1/16.

Offline Will Hinton

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2024, 02:47:49 PM »
I would use finishing resin.  Spread it on then try to scrape it off, using the remaining film as your adhesive.  Weight it down good and then let it cure  and you should have a piece of very, yes, very stiff 1/8.
However, I agree with just procuring some "real" 1/8 and saving the 1/16 for another time. S?P
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2024, 04:14:29 PM »
I am building Endgame IV entirely out of 1/16.  I have done quite a bit of laminating using cross grained 1/16 and also .3mm CF sheet.  I have found that slow cure CA spread on like you would finishing resin really works and sets up for use in about 30 seconds.  Really strong on the CF.  Probably heavier than scraped resin but not enough to really matter.

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Offline Dave Hull

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2024, 04:22:35 PM »
I would agree with Colin's method. I have laminated a number of pieces with excellent results. I'm not sure about creating entire sheets of 1/8" that way, but I don't doubt it can be done.

For example, I laminated a LE and TE set for a mid-sized I-beamer. The TE was 3/8" by 1/2" laminated from 3 pieces of 1/8". That results in two gluelines. The resulting TE stock was a bit over 43" so that I could trim it down for this elliptical wing.

The weight of the glued-up blank (no shaping or sanding) after fully drying was 20.0 grams; the prepared wood prior to glue-up was 19.1 grams. With proper control of the glue thinning the weight gain of this method is negligible. But don't expect to slather on full-strength Titebond, then add enough clamping pressure to balsa to achieve a proper glueline, and thus keep weight growth under control. That is not a viable method. You will crush the balsa trying to get there.*

As far as the warping, I clamped the TE to a piece of aluminum angle and let it fully dry. It is straight. Better than a single piece with one caveat--you will be sanding a glueline. With the thinned glue, this isn't near the "rubbery" experience you might be expecting. I didn't have a problem with it.

My suggestion would be to try a sample or two. Tune your methods up. See if you are happy with it.

Dave


*--there are also a lot of guys who will tell you that you can't use Titebond to glue plywood doublers to a profile fuselage. That it never dries. That the gooey mess will allow the fuselage to "let go" under engine vibration. That's nonsense. The issue is that there was extreme excess of glue used, that it was not thinned, so no reasonable amount of clamping was going to allow squeeze-out, and the moisture migration was going to take a long time. And by then, these guys might already have paint on it so where is that water going to go? When gluing things together, the methods make a huge difference in the results.

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2024, 10:21:23 AM »
I would use finishing resin.  Spread it on then try to scrape it off, using the remaining film as your adhesive.  Weight it down good and then let it cure  and you should have a piece of very, yes, very stiff 1/8.
However, I agree with just procuring some "real" 1/8 and saving the 1/16 for another time. S?P
+1.....I usually use laminating resin I have to mold props since it's very thin and spreads easily.   However any good slow set epoxy spread to nearly dry then the pieces weighted down flat overnight.   The bigger problem with any glue that requires air to cure is that sheet lams do not allow air in.  I can remember stripping off plywood doublers from a profile to replace oil soaked motor mounts.  The airplane was several years old.  The glue-in this case model cement-Ambroid_ was still wet if more than 1/2" in from the edge.   Without air the cement OR white glues are just as if you left them in the bottle.   Using resins that do not require air to set is the way to go.

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2024, 06:06:31 PM »
+1.....I usually use laminating resin I have to mold props since it's very thin and spreads easily.   However any good slow set epoxy spread to nearly dry then the pieces weighted down flat overnight.   The bigger problem with any glue that requires air to cure is that sheet lams do not allow air in.  I can remember stripping off plywood doublers from a profile to replace oil soaked motor mounts.  The airplane was several years old.  The glue-in this case model cement-Ambroid_ was still wet if more than 1/2" in from the edge.   Without air the cement OR white glues are just as if you left them in the bottle.   Using resins that do not require air to set is the way to go.

Dave

Ambroid and yellow glues will dry just fine as long as you give them time.  I've laminated 1/2" thick fuselage blanks from 1/4" wood using Titebond II.  Get it glued up Sunday night, let it stay under weights for a week, build the plane as I get time -- everything works fine.

But I am by no means a fast, production-line builder.  I'd give a fuselage like that a month to fully dry before I sealed the solvent in with dope.  For me, that just happens naturally -- if you're blessed with the abilty to build faster, be sure to plan ahead.

For 1/8 laminated out of 1/16, I'd use Ambroid and let it dry for a week.  Or, maybe I'd use finishing resin.
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2024, 09:53:09 PM »
My experiance with laminating sheets is that they warp. The different pieces of wood change with the weather or something and warp. YMMV

Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2024, 10:51:23 PM »
I have some good light 1/16 balsa but am short on 1/8 balsa. I'm considering laminating 2 pieces of 1/16 to get 1/8. What is the best glue to use for lamination in order to minimize weight gain?

      One thing to consider is, do you plan to sand the wood after? What parts is it being used for? IS it necessary to laminate a whole sheet, or is it for smaller formers and such, so smaller parts pieces can be cut and glued?? If the latter is the case, use anything that you have, but sparingly. Weighting it down on a flat surface with a flat surface on top under the weight would be best I think. I think it really depends what parts you are using the wood for. If it's for a thing flap, the thin layer of finish cure epoxy would help with stiffness. Whatchya gonna use it for?
  Type at you later,
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Online doug coursey

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2024, 06:26:47 AM »
BUY AN RSM KIT AND YOU WILL DO A LOT LAMINATING...KIT DOESNT COME WITH BALSA BLOCKS
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2024, 11:43:47 AM »
Ambroid and yellow glues will dry just fine as long as you give them time.  I've laminated 1/2" thick fuselage blanks from 1/4" wood using Titebond II.  Get it glued up Sunday night, let it stay under weights for a week, build the plane as I get time -- everything works fine.

But I am by no means a fast, production-line builder.  I'd give a fuselage like that a month to fully dry before I sealed the solvent in with dope.  For me, that just happens naturally -- if you're blessed with the abilty to build faster, be sure to plan ahead.

For 1/8 laminated out of 1/16, I'd use Ambroid and let it dry for a week.  Or, maybe I'd use finishing resin.
The airplane I was talking about was over five years old....maybe If I'd have waited longer.......when the glue is completely trapped away from air it will not dry.  Next time you have built one that way and are ready to scrap it,   strip off the ply doublers and 'smell' the rosey glue.

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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Laminating balsa
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2024, 11:08:30 PM »
The airplane I was talking about was over five years old....maybe If I'd have waited longer.......when the glue is completely trapped away from air it will not dry.  Next time you have built one that way and are ready to scrap it,   strip off the ply doublers and 'smell' the rosey glue.

Dave

     The kicker is that, even though it never quite dries in the middle of the face, just the 3/8-1/2" around the edge is enough to hold it together sufficiently most of the time. That doesn't make it a good idea to use something like Ambroid for this, but it does tell you how overbuilt they are in places.

     Brett


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