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Author Topic: Hinge placement ?  (Read 1895 times)

Offline Alan Buck

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Hinge placement ?
« on: February 05, 2010, 08:27:30 AM »
What would be a good distance for hinges center to center on flaps and elevators. On a 60''span 650 square wing area. Flaps lenght is 24 to 26 inches and elevators are 12 to 14 long?    THANKS.
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Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 09:49:11 AM »
4 on each flap and 3 on each elevator, put the inside ones close to the control horns. put the outside ones 1 inch from the ends. space the others evenly. Might want to add a 5th to the flaps just inside the outboard hinge to double up at the tip. This is where they typically fail.

Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 10:16:41 AM »
Might want to add a 5th to the flaps just inside the outboard hinge to double up at the tip. This is where they typically fail.

Bob- Is the outbd. hinge failure attributed to flap twist under an airload? -the tip hinge being furthest from the horn and under the most stress. I would think the control horn takes up alot of the airload forces (inbd.)
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 10:52:35 AM »
I am waiting for Bob's reply to this.  All I know is if you use only one hinge at the outer most point on the flaps or even the elevators it will break.  Using two hinges close together at the outer points, have never had a failure.   Lately I have been using cloth hinges all the way on flaps and elevators.  Does two things.  Makes it easier for  me to hinge the surfaces and it also seals the hinge line.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 11:46:55 AM »
I tend to use 5 on the flaps. The spacing gets progressively closer as it gets toward the tip.
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Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 02:31:10 PM »
thanks for the answers guys
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 03:59:49 PM »
Bob- Is the outbd. hinge failure attributed to flap twist under an airload? -the tip hinge being furthest from the horn and under the most stress. I would think the control horn takes up alot of the airload forces (inbd.)

Don't know, never analized why, just know everytime I've seen a broken flap hinge it was at the tip.

Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 06:14:39 PM »
Will double hinge the tips
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2010, 06:47:18 AM »
I would think that on a tapered flap the loads on the hinges decrease as you go out toward the tip because of the reduced area.  Provided you put the last hinge close to the tip, say with only 1" of overhang, I dont think it is necessary to double up.  The horn bearing , provided you securely mount it to the TE, is a hinge itself.  I use to, but dont anymore, try and get the first hinge close as possible to the horn.  Then I realized that makes the alignment all the more critical.  For a given amount of mis-alignment, the closer 2 hinge points are the more binding will result as surface rotates.  So now what I do is put the 1st hinge 2~3" from horn, put the last hinge 1" from the tip, and evenly space the rest of the hinges.  On my last ship just recently layed out, my flaps are 22" long, I used 4 hinges and it came out exactly at 6" spacing between hinges.  I felt that was right at the upper limit of acceptable hinge spacing, and if flap would have been an inch longer I would have used 5 hinges.  So if your flaps are 24" I would go with 5 hinges. On the elevator I used 3 hinges and the spacing came out at 4.5".
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Offline Alan Buck

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2010, 08:04:25 AM »
Allan, Thank you for the answer to may question. The way you and Bob answered is the way it worked out for me. flap hinges are 51/2'' on center and elevators are 5''on centers 251/2'' flaps and 131/2'' elevators.  Thank you 
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2010, 08:17:10 AM »
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Offline Douglas Ames

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 05:06:16 PM »
I would think that on a tapered flap the loads on the hinges decrease as you go out toward the tip because of the reduced area.  Provided you put the last hinge close to the tip, say with only 1" of overhang, I dont think it is necessary to double up.  The horn bearing , provided you securely mount it to the TE, is a hinge itself. 

The loads would decrease proportional to area, yes but the stiffness would also decrease which would account for flap twist. Since the flaps are joined at the root by a metal rod, this portion of the flap would be pretty stout. If hinges are failing at the outboard point it would be only due to wing flex (bend) or flap twist (torsion), correct?
Al Rabe has some good ideas by using a carbon tube for a LE spar.
This is my theory and is certainly open for debate. No argument intended.
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Offline Allan Perret

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 06:21:22 PM »
The loads would decrease proportional to area, yes but the stiffness would also decrease which would account for flap twist. Since the flaps are joined at the root by a metal rod, this portion of the flap would be pretty stout. If hinges are failing at the outboard point it would be only due to wing flex (bend) or flap twist (torsion), correct?
Al Rabe has some good ideas by using a carbon tube for a LE spar.
This is my theory and is certainly open for debate. No argument intended.
I dont think there is enough wing flex to cause a hinge failure.  Flap twist is not a good thing for overall performance and surely complicates trimming, but that does not increase load on hinge, in fact it probably decreases the hinge load relative to a stiffer flap with no twist.  I think most of the failures of the tip hinge is because it was installed too far inboard from the tip.  With excessive overhang of the flap tip it is more likely to flutter..  
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 02:45:46 PM by Allan Perret »
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: Hinge placement ?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2010, 09:21:46 AM »
I am with Doc!  I went to using cloth hinges all the way across several years ago (tip from Billy W.).  No hinge line to seal.

When I have used the large Klett hinges, I used 5 per flap, and just spaced them evenly across the flap.  About 3" from the fuse to 1" from the tip and one in the center.  Then find the centers between those as you go.  A 12" center finding ruler works great!  And the flap hinges look symmetrically spaced regardless of flap length from side to side.

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