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Author Topic: echo chamber  (Read 1454 times)

Online Matt Colan

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echo chamber
« on: April 22, 2009, 03:15:21 PM »
On the Ares, when it is flying, it sounds like an echo chamber.  Nothing seems insulated or sound smooth.  Why is that?  What could I do to fix it?

 H^^
Matt Colan

Offline Bill Adair

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 09:06:19 PM »
Matt,

If that noise is something that just started, it sounds like something is loose, or broke.

I had an R/C airplane do that, and couldn't figure where the noise was coming from. Finally, pulled the engine out, and found one end of the aluminum engine mount broke loose, so the rest of the mount on that side was vibrating against the wood structure.

Bill
Not a flyer (age related), but still love the hobby!

Online Matt Colan

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 05:07:03 AM »
Everything is tight.  I am running an extension shaft on my OS .35S, so could it be that, that's vibrating.

Matt Colan

Offline Dick Fowler

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 06:00:44 AM »
Everything is tight.  I am running an extension shaft on my OS .35S, so could it be that, that's vibrating.



The extension itself should not be causing any vibration but.... the prop balance becomes more critical as the distance from the end of the engine case is increased. It amplifies any vibration. I'd double check the prop balance.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 06:36:56 AM »
Hi Matt:

It is likely that you are running your engine in an RPM range that causes a vibration that is producing a resonance frequency in the airframe. Try a larger/smaller diameter prop and/or a higher/lower RPM range. Perhaps a three blade might do it...

If it's any consolation, many of us have experienced this exact same problem from time to time. In fact, Billy Werwage had a ship that had such a bad resonance frequency problem that he had to cut the nose off and replace it with one that had more mass. That model was saved by the mod and actually won the Concours award at the 1994 Nats after the repair! I'm certainly not suggesting that you begin cutting on your new plane! But, be aware that there are resonant forces that can cause us serious problems. 

Bob Hunt
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 12:49:33 PM by Bob Hunt »

Offline don boka

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 09:01:56 AM »
Hi Matt.
I have been around I-Beams since the mid fifties and the sound is typical of that wing construction. Back then most were Fox powered and there was vibration no matter what was right or wrong. The wing is basically a drum with all of its open structure and tight covering top and bottom. Even the I-Beam combat planes of the day (similar to a Ringmaster) had that sound and one always knew when an I-Beam was flying. Make sure everything is tight and prop balanced, try it without the spinner and even slightly change the size and brand of the prop and launch RPM. If the sound persists then it is what it is or Grace cast a spell on it!!!!

Enjoy,

Don Boka.

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 11:12:18 AM »
Bob is right on. It's probably a sympathic vibration issue.
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Offline Don Hutchinson AMA5402

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 09:12:42 PM »
Maybe try a prop that will put less load on the engine, it could be predetonating.
Don

Online Brett Buck

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 10:49:41 PM »

If it's any consolation, many of us have experienced this exact same problem from time to time. In fact, Billy Werwage had a ship that had such a bad resonance frequency problem that he had to cut the nose off and replace it with one that had more mass. That model was saved by the mod and actually won the Concours award at the 1994 Nats after the repair! I'm certainly not suggesting that you begin cutting on your new plane! But, be aware that there are resonant forces that can cause us serious problems. 

   You mean adding weight made it better??!!  Heresy!

    Actually, I am surprised we don't have far more problems with resonance than we do. Certainly we aren't doing anything sensible to prevent it, it just works out for some reason most of the time.

     Brett

Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 10:45:40 AM »
Hi Matt,
If you don't have any installed, you may try thin discs of sandpaper between the prop driver on the engine and extension shaft, and between the extension and spinner backplate, too. Real thin 1200 or so might do it. Balance the prop and spinner as a unit and mark them with a dot of paint so you orient them the same way every time. It might help.
A friend had a Formula 1 racing airplane (one you race with yourself inside of it) and he changed props and it vibrated very badly at racing rpm. He re-clocked the prop 180 degrees on the crankshaft and the vibration went away. Those are 200 cubic inch four cylinder engines, but similar effects are known on our little 1 cylinder jobs. Changing some things might minimize the vibration you are having.
Chris...


Online Matt Colan

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2009, 05:26:27 PM »
Today, I switched fuel to 10% Red Max fuel and it ran beautifully, with no echo chamber sound, it was smooth and sounded right.  I was running 5% Sig champion fuel, and with the fuel switch, it ran a lot better
Matt Colan

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2009, 04:37:44 PM »
Matt,  the change in fuel has probably made a change in rpm.  If you check the rpm with the 5% and then set rpm the same with 10% you will get your echo chamber back.  DOC Holliday
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Online Matt Colan

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2009, 07:09:02 PM »
Matt,  the change in fuel has probably made a change in rpm.  If you check the rpm with the 5% and then set rpm the same with 10% you will get your echo chamber back.  DOC Holliday

I was still a little slow at 8900 RPM.  Only had one flight because my grandfather burnt down 2 starters, within 15 minutes and the wind came up.  Earlier I think it was at 8600 RPM.

Matt Colan

Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 08:39:00 PM »
I had this problem with a Fox 35 powered Gieseke Nobler a few years ago.  Ran Superfuel and a Top Flite 10x6 Super M prop. With the first test flights, I thought it worked great, until it would hit resonance every now and then in level flight.  It would rattle so hard I thought it might disintegrate, then, the fuel delivery to the engine would be disturbed, the rpm would change, the resonance would stop, the engine would return to its normal rpm, and the cycle would (might) repeat.  After two or three flights with this alarming issue, I "hid" from the problem by using a 10x5 Super M and running some more rpm.  The problem never came back, but the airplane suffered a major structural failure only 100 flights later, something I attribute to the vibration it was exposed to.  Resonance can be very destructive...
Steve

Eric Viglione

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Re: echo chamber
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2009, 03:08:55 PM »
Aside from the stuff mentioned above:

Loose wheels spinning in flight can make a terrible racket... also check your flap hinges for one that didn't get enough glue. Flaps like to pick up vibes for some reason... tape your hinge lines after you check them if you haven't. Take a piece of masking tape and lock your flaps and elevators neutral (without tension between the two) and shake the plane side to side and listen to see if your push rod flops back and forth, maybe a keeper came off or was just installed with some slop.

Hope that helps,
EricV


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